You could try my favourite alignment the vented Keele one where you have a second order high pass filter giving 6 db of boost at the port tuning frequency. Gives Vbox 71 litres
26 Hz -3db point (also 26Hz is the box tuning and filter peak freq)
On Winisd you go for 3dB boost because it works in power not voltage btw
26 Hz -3db point (also 26Hz is the box tuning and filter peak freq)
On Winisd you go for 3dB boost because it works in power not voltage btw
richie00boy said:
By looking at it whilst running in, (not really the way to do it I know! ), I would guess Xmax is around 10mm. As for Bl, I think that's just the SW default value in there
consort_ee_um said:
Sounds interesting. Got any references? Still comparatively big box though. Might be time to have a look at MJK's tables.
References are on Don Keeles website dbkeele.com
http://www.dbkeele.com/PDF/Keele (1975-07%20AES%20Published)%20-%20New%20Set%20of%20VB%20Alignments.pdf
Equations 7 and 8 on page 355 are the key . Do not worry it starts on page 351
http://www.dbkeele.com/PDF/Keele (1975-07%20AES%20Published)%20-%20New%20Set%20of%20VB%20Alignments.pdf
Equations 7 and 8 on page 355 are the key . Do not worry it starts on page 351
Hi
Great to finally find some info on these drivers. Really handy!
I’ve got a pair myself.
You guys seem to be way ahead of me but for what its worth...
It had me confused for a while, these are not the drivers from the Rel Quake that’s around now, the little square one shown below (hopefully). They’re the drivers from the original Quake, the predecessor to the Q50 and Q100 that was one of the very first Rels, around mid nineties if memory serves me correctly.
Take a peak at:
http://www.zenn.com.sg/Rel_Quake.jpg
Anything look familiar?
I think they are 10 inchers (or a smidge under) most drivers seem to be measured in total including the surround. So most 12ins actually have around 10.5 – 11 inch cone and most 10 ins are 8.5 ins or so cone wise.
Haven’t done any measuring yet but subjectively quite impressed, deeper sound than expected, although it was never going to be seismic. And quite a tight too.
A kind of halfway house between a bass driver and a true sub.
The original quake had a 40 or 50 watt amp, so I don’t think these speakers were designed for anything too dramatic, quite a small linear excursion, but for the money not bad at all.
Great to finally find some info on these drivers. Really handy!
I’ve got a pair myself.
You guys seem to be way ahead of me but for what its worth...
It had me confused for a while, these are not the drivers from the Rel Quake that’s around now, the little square one shown below (hopefully). They’re the drivers from the original Quake, the predecessor to the Q50 and Q100 that was one of the very first Rels, around mid nineties if memory serves me correctly.
Take a peak at:
http://www.zenn.com.sg/Rel_Quake.jpg
Anything look familiar?
I think they are 10 inchers (or a smidge under) most drivers seem to be measured in total including the surround. So most 12ins actually have around 10.5 – 11 inch cone and most 10 ins are 8.5 ins or so cone wise.
Haven’t done any measuring yet but subjectively quite impressed, deeper sound than expected, although it was never going to be seismic. And quite a tight too.
A kind of halfway house between a bass driver and a true sub.
The original quake had a 40 or 50 watt amp, so I don’t think these speakers were designed for anything too dramatic, quite a small linear excursion, but for the money not bad at all.
Attachments
Hi Pinkmouse,
I don’t have any specs on paper but from the picture I’d guess dimensions around 40cm by 30cm by 25 cm or a bit over. About 30litres.
Stuffing with the right filler might bring that up to 40L which maybe where that figure came from.
From memory I think it had a freq response down to around 30 – 35 hz, but I cant remember if that was a true –3db or cheeky ‘in room response’, I suspect the former.
Sealed box.
REL will probably be able to fill you in on the full specs. They are very cagey about giving away any info on the internals but pretty good otherwise. I’m sure they will have a brochure or instruction manual lying around somewhere. Mr Lord builds his subs to last a long time so I would expect support to still be available.
Haven’t got any pics yet, haven’t got much of a project yet!
I don’t have any specs on paper but from the picture I’d guess dimensions around 40cm by 30cm by 25 cm or a bit over. About 30litres.
Stuffing with the right filler might bring that up to 40L which maybe where that figure came from.
From memory I think it had a freq response down to around 30 – 35 hz, but I cant remember if that was a true –3db or cheeky ‘in room response’, I suspect the former.
Sealed box.
REL will probably be able to fill you in on the full specs. They are very cagey about giving away any info on the internals but pretty good otherwise. I’m sure they will have a brochure or instruction manual lying around somewhere. Mr Lord builds his subs to last a long time so I would expect support to still be available.
Haven’t got any pics yet, haven’t got much of a project yet!
Well, I put my issues with my AV15 to the side for the moment, so I could get this finished. The box was a 50L test box, which is why it looks a bit rough, but to be honest, this is going to partner my powered JBL LSR25P minimonitors which get used for mobile monitoring a lot, so they will get a certain amount of beating. I still have to do some testing to finalise the crossover, but overall, not bad for the money.
Attachments
Aha, another fan of No More Nails I see Have you ever had any issues with it? I was going to use it for the fancy veneered box, but people keep telling me to use PVA wood glue or other 'proper stuff', but I find NMN brilliant and wonder if it's just them stuck in their ways.
What's the little plate amp?
Have you ever had any issues with it? I was going to use it for the fancy veneered box, but people keep telling me to use PVA wood glue or other 'proper stuff', but I find NMN brilliant and wonder if it's just them stuck in their ways.What's the little plate amp?
Ha!
The NMN is only used to seal off the hole I drilled for the speaker cable for the isobaric driver, the rest of the construction was done with PVA. I suspect the water based NMN is actually just a thick PVA, maybe with just a little filler for gap filling, and as such, I'm sure it would be fine for box construction.
The plate amp is one of the Maplin Mosfet lookie-likie jobs, bolted to an old hard drive cooler heatsink. The separate panel has power and signal inputs, which will be upgraded to XLR once the crossover is finalised.
As it is, I still can't stop fiddling, I just took the feet off to taper them as I didn't like the look as was, and of course give them a coat of Turbosound Blue (Tm) to match the rest of the box.
The NMN is only used to seal off the hole I drilled for the speaker cable for the isobaric driver, the rest of the construction was done with PVA. I suspect the water based NMN is actually just a thick PVA, maybe with just a little filler for gap filling, and as such, I'm sure it would be fine for box construction.
The plate amp is one of the Maplin Mosfet lookie-likie jobs, bolted to an old hard drive cooler heatsink. The separate panel has power and signal inputs, which will be upgraded to XLR once the crossover is finalised.
As it is, I still can't stop fiddling, I just took the feet off to taper them as I didn't like the look as was, and of course give them a coat of Turbosound Blue (Tm) to match the rest of the box.
Hi Pinkmoose
I know that it is a while since this thread was last fresh.
I am sorry, but I don't understand the box specs that you posted - please could you help out a sub noobie?
1. What volume did you end up using?
2. What was the port width and length?
3. Next to the graph it states "2x Rel 8"" Did you use two drive units? If so, in series or parallel?
4. Earlier in the thread you spoke of finalising the crossover. I thought that the plate amps usually took care of this?
Thanks in advance.
Michael
I know that it is a while since this thread was last fresh.
I am sorry, but I don't understand the box specs that you posted - please could you help out a sub noobie?
1. What volume did you end up using?
2. What was the port width and length?
3. Next to the graph it states "2x Rel 8"" Did you use two drive units? If so, in series or parallel?
4. Earlier in the thread you spoke of finalising the crossover. I thought that the plate amps usually took care of this?
Thanks in advance.
Michael
Hi Michael
The specs are all in the pic above, you just have to know what to look for.
Box size is Physical Vb, and Inside Port Diameter and Port length give the other numbers you need.
As for your other Qs, yes I used two drivers mounted face to face, (see pic below), in an Isobarik configuration, and the crossover had to finalised as I was building it from scratch, not using a commercial plate amp.
The specs are all in the pic above, you just have to know what to look for.
Box size is Physical Vb, and Inside Port Diameter and Port length give the other numbers you need.
As for your other Qs, yes I used two drivers mounted face to face, (see pic below), in an Isobarik configuration, and the crossover had to finalised as I was building it from scratch, not using a commercial plate amp.
Attachments
I too purchased two of these as a first sub project ,unfortunatley i relied on the specs supplied and used them to calculate the compoents for esp's linkwitz circiut.Each driver is loaded into a 20l box and driven from a 50w amp crossed at 80 hz .Sound was not bad but given pinkmouses results the high vas makes the linkwitz circiut wrong with a definate hump from instead of flat response i expeceted (although they still sound pretty good for a 10£ speaker but do need a lot of power ) ,time to recalulate and get the soldering iron out.
Anybody else done any projects with these drivers be intrested to know your findings . Andy
Anybody else done any projects with these drivers be intrested to know your findings . Andy
Hi i recalculated the vas using the spreadsheet on richie00boys website using the following figures
D=210mm
Sd=346cm
Vtb=19l
Fs=32hz
Fc=55hz
This gives a calculated vas of 40l as the original specifications ,i wondered if these results are correct as i am new to this speaker design theroy ,any replies would be helpfull ( would save rebuilding my linkwitz circiut ).
Andy
D=210mm
Sd=346cm
Vtb=19l
Fs=32hz
Fc=55hz
This gives a calculated vas of 40l as the original specifications ,i wondered if these results are correct as i am new to this speaker design theroy ,any replies would be helpfull ( would save rebuilding my linkwitz circiut ).
Andy
OK, let's see if we can verify your figures.
D is the piston diameter, you should have measured this with a ruler as the cone diameter plus a third of the surround at each side.
Sd is calculated for you.
Vtb is the volume of the sealed test box you used. So this was 19 litres accounting for the volume taken up by the drive unit?
Fs is the free air resonance frequency of the drive unit.
Fc is the resonance of the drive unit in the (19 litre) test box. This should be between 1.5 and 2.0 times Fs if the test box volume is right. So you seem to be OK on that.
So if all that is right then your Vas is right 38.75 litres I make it.
D is the piston diameter, you should have measured this with a ruler as the cone diameter plus a third of the surround at each side.
Sd is calculated for you.
Vtb is the volume of the sealed test box you used. So this was 19 litres accounting for the volume taken up by the drive unit?
Fs is the free air resonance frequency of the drive unit.
Fc is the resonance of the drive unit in the (19 litre) test box. This should be between 1.5 and 2.0 times Fs if the test box volume is right. So you seem to be OK on that.
So if all that is right then your Vas is right
38.75 litres I make it.I have made a bit of a ****-up.
I purchased 4 of these units, together with 2x 150W RMS into 8 ohms plate amps, so that I could make a pair of subs to complement a brace of Fostex FE127e in monopole ML-TLs.
I had forgotten that space was a consideration, so I decided to build just one and save the spare units for another project.
My height and depth limits are both 32cm, so I was drawing up plans for a 45 litre cabinet (wide), when I realised that because the lower driver sticks out approx 13cm from the cabinet, the remaining height of the cabinet interior was insufficient to mount my plate amp (26.5cm x 26.5cm) into.
Are there any other designs for these drivers that will suit my physical perameters?
Or any solutions to my woes?
I purchased 4 of these units, together with 2x 150W RMS into 8 ohms plate amps, so that I could make a pair of subs to complement a brace of Fostex FE127e in monopole ML-TLs.
I had forgotten that space was a consideration, so I decided to build just one and save the spare units for another project.
My height and depth limits are both 32cm, so I was drawing up plans for a 45 litre cabinet (wide), when I realised that because the lower driver sticks out approx 13cm from the cabinet, the remaining height of the cabinet interior was insufficient to mount my plate amp (26.5cm x 26.5cm) into.
Are there any other designs for these drivers that will suit my physical perameters?
Or any solutions to my woes?
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