Hi guys,
I've heard a lot of discussion between the quality of home theater amps vs. pro audio amps. For something like 300 bucks you can get a 200 watt home theater amp, or you can get like a 750 watt pro amp. Now I've heard home theater watts referred to as "real" watts, and pro watts as "fake" watts, meaning that the pro amps have very little current, and if I'm correct, current is what we want to move these speakers. So, any thoughts/ideas? I'm asking becasue these Snell subs I have are rated at 600-1000 watts, and so I could either spend 300 bucks on a 200 watt stereo amp, and still underpower them, or i could spend the same 300 bucks on like a Behringer EP2500 that puts out something like 600 watts at 8 ohms.
I've heard a lot of discussion between the quality of home theater amps vs. pro audio amps. For something like 300 bucks you can get a 200 watt home theater amp, or you can get like a 750 watt pro amp. Now I've heard home theater watts referred to as "real" watts, and pro watts as "fake" watts, meaning that the pro amps have very little current, and if I'm correct, current is what we want to move these speakers. So, any thoughts/ideas? I'm asking becasue these Snell subs I have are rated at 600-1000 watts, and so I could either spend 300 bucks on a 200 watt stereo amp, and still underpower them, or i could spend the same 300 bucks on like a Behringer EP2500 that puts out something like 600 watts at 8 ohms.
the EP is a SOLID amp, and from what ive read it DOES put out rated power(depending on THD, a bit more).
Ive heard that usually prefer the sound of pro amps over plate amps for subwoofers, many people have said that they sound "cleaner" and "tighter"
also the eztra headroom on the EP would help.
BUT if this is for a HT setup, you have to know that the input sensitivity is LOWER meaning you might need a booster, although iev never heard of anyone having to resort to a booster(doesnt mean it doesnt happen).
Ive heard that usually prefer the sound of pro amps over plate amps for subwoofers, many people have said that they sound "cleaner" and "tighter"
also the eztra headroom on the EP would help.
BUT if this is for a HT setup, you have to know that the input sensitivity is LOWER meaning you might need a booster, although iev never heard of anyone having to resort to a booster(doesnt mean it doesnt happen).
There is a lot of snobbery regarding pro amps in the audiophile world. Yes, some do sound rubbish, and you have to be aware that quoted power figures are usually into 4ohm, but for driving subs a good pro amp is an excellent choice. I haven't heard the Behringer, as it is at the lower end of the market, but I'm sure it will be fine for you. If you want to spend a little more, look out for s/h kit like C-Audio, Crown, (not the Powerbase series), or QSC.
CARTRulz said:
You're completely the wrong way round, PA amps are 'proper' honest watts, and cheap home audio systems are the ones that specify 'imaginary watts'.
Any decent manufacturer though will only specify RMS watts, and it's that you should look for. Your home theatre amp is more expensive because it includes a LOT more, more channels, preamps, possibly a decoder as well, maybe even a tuner?.
I really don't think you need to run an EP2500 for a home sub-woofer though - it will certainly 'move' them, it might move them next door though!.
Cool, thanks guys.
I actually have looked at Crown and QSC, they seem to be real nice. I'm not really worried about overpowering them, as they are Snell SUB1800's that go for about $2500 each brand new, and theyre speced at 600-1000 watts. I only ask becuause these are subs that are made to be "clean" and "tight" and arent really made for "boom box" applications, although they certainly have an immense of output. I was just curious about the power ratings and the power quality, as I'd probably go with a low distortion and "clean" amp over something thats gonna push the sub to lots of output but make it sound muddy.
I actually have looked at Crown and QSC, they seem to be real nice. I'm not really worried about overpowering them, as they are Snell SUB1800's that go for about $2500 each brand new, and theyre speced at 600-1000 watts. I only ask becuause these are subs that are made to be "clean" and "tight" and arent really made for "boom box" applications, although they certainly have an immense of output. I was just curious about the power ratings and the power quality, as I'd probably go with a low distortion and "clean" amp over something thats gonna push the sub to lots of output but make it sound muddy.
CARTRulz said:
The Behringer EP2500 is pretty well identical to one of the QSC models, as QSC haven't taken them to court?, it seems likely they both buy them from the same Chinese manufacturer?.
Certainly Behringer don't copy equipment to the extent of cloning, only the general idea and often the look! (which did get them in trouble with Boss).
Quick question, what would you guys think about this amp:
http://www.gemsound.com/products_amplifiers-pa4505.html
I can get it for under 300. Is there perhaps another amp that will do better similarly priced? 300 is my max, and I need soemthing like 700wrms into 4 ohms. (Well, I don't need that, but my subs would like it)
Thanks Ahead of time!
~Jerick
http://www.gemsound.com/products_amplifiers-pa4505.html
I can get it for under 300. Is there perhaps another amp that will do better similarly priced? 300 is my max, and I need soemthing like 700wrms into 4 ohms. (Well, I don't need that, but my subs would like it)
Thanks Ahead of time!
~Jerick
Ya, I'm getting a bit confused myself, I hope maybe Nigel can clear this up.
I'm not sure if the formula I stated results in peak watts or RMS. It's been a long time since I thought about it. Doing the math on a couple of car amps I have would seem to indicate RMS is the right answer.
Remember, this is a very loose way to estimate potential power anyway, it depends on a lot of variables including specific design, class of operation, etc.
Given the simple fact that it is pro gear and actually has power meters I really don't think they are lying.
I'm not sure if the formula I stated results in peak watts or RMS. It's been a long time since I thought about it. Doing the math on a couple of car amps I have would seem to indicate RMS is the right answer.
Remember, this is a very loose way to estimate potential power anyway, it depends on a lot of variables including specific design, class of operation, etc.
Given the simple fact that it is pro gear and actually has power meters I really don't think they are lying.
Pro vs Home amps
Firstly there is NO SUCH THING as "Watts RMS"
Wattage is volts x amps or volts.volts/impedance or amps.amps.impedance.
So having a number squared and then divided or multiplied by some other number can NOT give you an answer with a "root mean square"
Square root of 4 x square root of 4 does NOT = square root of 4 but just the number 4. The "root mean square" is gone.
The term is continuous power, no more no less.
Pro amps of the Crown, QSC, Crest, Peavy etc MUST meet their spec. Mnay of these amplifiers are used in situations where the specs must be strictly adhered to. The el cheepo "pro" amps are just that.
Home amps that meet FTC requirements MUST meet published power specs
Firstly there is NO SUCH THING as "Watts RMS"
Wattage is volts x amps or volts.volts/impedance or amps.amps.impedance.
So having a number squared and then divided or multiplied by some other number can NOT give you an answer with a "root mean square"
Square root of 4 x square root of 4 does NOT = square root of 4 but just the number 4. The "root mean square" is gone.
The term is continuous power, no more no less.
Pro amps of the Crown, QSC, Crest, Peavy etc MUST meet their spec. Mnay of these amplifiers are used in situations where the specs must be strictly adhered to. The el cheepo "pro" amps are just that.
Home amps that meet FTC requirements MUST meet published power specs
Of course, that makes sense. Obviously I type without thinking sometimes.
So 1650 watts continuous is the max the amp can draw. Extrapolate this number with reference to the amp's class efficiency and that should give a very rough ballpark of continuous watts output.
If this is the case the numbers might be a bit optomistic but wouldn't seem blatantly false. There are many other factors that play a role here.
So is this brand reputable or el cheapo? It was glaringly absent from your list so... I'm guessing that's insinuation by omission.
So 1650 watts continuous is the max the amp can draw. Extrapolate this number with reference to the amp's class efficiency and that should give a very rough ballpark of continuous watts output.
If this is the case the numbers might be a bit optomistic but wouldn't seem blatantly false. There are many other factors that play a role here.
So is this brand reputable or el cheapo? It was glaringly absent from your list so... I'm guessing that's insinuation by omission.
It's el cheapo, likely with inflated power figures. These cheap 'pro' amps are just not in the same league as a real pro amp and is why the real pro amps get a bad name. Real pro amps can easily compete with the best high end audio gear, cheap ones cannot and sometimes are even worse than a decent home audio amp.
I would expect to pay £1 per honest watt for a proper decent pro amp. At today's exchange rate that's $1.86
I would expect to pay £1 per honest watt for a proper decent pro amp. At today's exchange rate that's $1.86
Point well taken.
However home amps just can't compete with this kind of brute power. It will only see use as a sub amp anyway, and probably not driven to capacity.
For the price difference for someone like me on a budget, is this still not a viable alternative to real pro gear in the situation described? Which physical parts and/or sound quality factors are inferior?
However home amps just can't compete with this kind of brute power. It will only see use as a sub amp anyway, and probably not driven to capacity.
For the price difference for someone like me on a budget, is this still not a viable alternative to real pro gear in the situation described? Which physical parts and/or sound quality factors are inferior?
The behringer will do its rated power, I have a couple as hire amps and they are too bad. (less risk than hiring out a £3k amp and 1/3rd the weight)
The EP2500 is a copy of the QSC RMX series. Its class H, not exactly the most hifi amp out there and the fan is a bit noisy. The design is quite sound though. There are better amps but not for that money unless you go for second hand.
A good pro audio amp will have been designed to run all day and night close to its limits. I've done gigs where the amp clip limit lights have been on more than they have been off and they just keep on playing.
There are a lot of 'DJ' amps out there that are just pure cr*p. They are perfect partners for the big red DJ speakers with the big peizo horn and the 4 peizo bullets across the top
Personally I run a Chameleon 2 amp for my hifi. Lovely amp and only 1U high.
The EP2500 is a copy of the QSC RMX series. Its class H, not exactly the most hifi amp out there and the fan is a bit noisy. The design is quite sound though. There are better amps but not for that money unless you go for second hand.
A good pro audio amp will have been designed to run all day and night close to its limits. I've done gigs where the amp clip limit lights have been on more than they have been off and they just keep on playing.
There are a lot of 'DJ' amps out there that are just pure cr*p. They are perfect partners for the big red DJ speakers with the big peizo horn and the 4 peizo bullets across the top
Personally I run a Chameleon 2 amp for my hifi. Lovely amp and only 1U high.
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