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Old 12th March 2006, 01:11 AM   #1
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Default Why could corner horn not be this simple?

Corner horn systems like Klipsch seem so very complicated. Why couldn't it be as simple as two woofers on baffles open toward the corner as shown below (pardon the crude drawing) with a peice of MDF glued on top.

mike
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Old 12th March 2006, 02:37 AM   #2
mike.e is offline mike.e  New Zealand
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Consider Expansion rate of the corner. Consider the path length.
The expansion relies on perfect boundarys,the taper is conical from memory,and the path length is short.

regards
Mike.e
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Old 1st August 2014, 12:50 AM   #3
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Is it possible to make this into a tall vertical array -- floor to ceiling, and reduce the necessary path length?

This would essentially be a column of drivers firing into the corner. Can anyone model this?
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Old 1st August 2014, 01:30 AM   #4
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You can get the benefits of "corner gain" and "90 degree controlled directivity" by constructing a corner cabinet for a standard front radiating speaker. (90degree radiation instead of 360degree radiation). Digital equalization can be used for both deep bass and room optimization.

A bass-horn will give additional gain, but with the trade-off of a reduced bandwidth. The Seven PI speaker is considered a good, simple construction bass-horn. Note the properly designed rear volume behind the woofer, and the direct radiation into the 90degree corner.

The newer Klipsch/DIY Jubilee bass corner horn measures better than the original Klipsch. Easier to build then the original, but still a nasty construction.
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File Type: jpg seven_Pi_cornerhorn.jpg (429.7 KB, 266 views)
File Type: jpg PI build.jpg (31.9 KB, 256 views)
File Type: jpg Corner_Benefits.jpg (125.3 KB, 260 views)
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Old 1st August 2014, 01:36 AM   #5
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As long as the basshorn plays up to 80Hz, that would be acceptable.
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Old 1st August 2014, 01:56 AM   #6
GM is offline GM  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mashaffer View Post
Corner horn systems like Klipsch seem so very complicated. Why couldn't it be as simple as two woofers on baffles open toward the corner as shown below (pardon the crude drawing) with a peice of MDF glued on top.

mike
There were some corner horns back in the '50s popularized by the Klipsch REBEL that were almost as simple.

I recall seeing patent applications that were variations of your design concept while looking for something else horn related, but at this late date I can't remember what I was searching for, though probably Tom Danley related in some way.
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Old 1st August 2014, 04:38 AM   #7
JLH is offline JLH  United States
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Originally Posted by noviygera View Post
Is it possible to make this into a tall vertical array -- floor to ceiling, and reduce the necessary path length?

This would essentially be a column of drivers firing into the corner. Can anyone model this?
You can cheat some on mouth area, but path length needs to be 1/4 wave length of the lowest frequency. You can't cheat path length. That means 14 feet long for 20Hz, and 8 feet for 35Hz.
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Old 1st August 2014, 05:01 AM   #8
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JLH,

let's say the target is 35Hz. But we place the column of woofers just one foot from the corner, firing into it. What will we get? Will the corner opening itself be a part of the "path length" or is it the mouth only and not helping to extend the path length?

Bottom line question is: there is not a way to shorten the horn path even with an array of woofers?
thank you,
Herman
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Old 1st August 2014, 11:08 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JLH View Post
You can cheat some on mouth area, but path length needs to be 1/4 wave length of the lowest frequency. You can't cheat path length. That means 14 feet long for 20Hz, and 8 feet for 35Hz.
Yea !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"My findings are that the 80hz horn works well at short listening distances like 8-12ft. The 85 hz hyperbolic horn is flat down to below 80hz and sounds best at listening distances 12-15ft. For a really large room, the 75hz horn goes down below 70Hz and requires at least a 20 ft listening distance......... As a rule of thumb you must be one wavelength away from a horn to be in the far field radiation zone for the best sound. For 100Hz, this distance is a little over 11ft."
(from Bruce Edgar)

High Efficiency Speaker Asylum

So, not only will it be a deep horn, but you need to be a bit away from it.

Norman
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Old 2nd August 2014, 12:17 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noviygera View Post
1)let's say the target is 35Hz. But we place the column of woofers just one foot from the corner, firing into it. What will we get?
2)Will the corner opening itself be a part of the "path length" or is it the mouth only and not helping to extend the path length?
3) there is not a way to shorten the horn path even with an array of woofers?
Herman,

1) As JLH pointed out, you need around an 8 foot path length to achieve horn loading to 35 Hz. A column of woofers placed just one foot from the corner is basically just that a one foot horn with a parabolic expansion, it won't load at all in the sub frequency range, but will provide corner gain. Simply placing the woofers in a column in the corner would be roughly the same, but would not have the resonance induced by the stubby reflector.
2) In typical corner horns, the depth of the enclosure adds to the path length. In the case of a "horn" Mike drew in post #1, or what you are suggesting, the path length may be around 3 feet or so.
1130(speed of sound in feet per second)/3=376.66 Hz/4=94 Hz
3) The horn path can be shortened, but then the horn is not useful for sub frequencies.

Art
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