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Why could corner horn not be this simple?
Why could corner horn not be this simple?
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Old 1st August 2014, 11:26 PM   #11
weltersys is offline weltersys  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norman bates View Post
" As a rule of thumb you must be one wavelength away from a horn to be in the far field radiation zone for the best sound. For 100Hz, this distance is a little over 11ft."
(from Bruce Edgar)
Norman,

With all respect to Bruce that rule of thumb is as useless as an ashtray on a motorbike when it comes to horn subs, the "far field" is achieved in approximately the distance equivalent to the diameter of the mouth. Higher frequencies actually require longer distance to be in the far field.

There is an "integration distance" for multi-way separate horns, the larger the vertical spacing, the further away one needs to be, unless aligned for a specific near location.

Art
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Old 2nd August 2014, 01:59 AM   #12
noviygera is offline noviygera  United States
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Guys, thanks for clearing that up. I now see that a simple array of sealed subs in the corners will be a good solution. I do not see an easy way to time align main speakers with an 8 foot long horn without DSP.
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Old 2nd August 2014, 06:13 AM   #13
norman bates is offline norman bates  United States
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I found my Keele W-bin had no bass near it, but it hit you in the back of the room.

As also I've been in dance clubs with the bass horns on the edge of the dance floor. There was no bass until you got way off the dance floor.

Norman
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Old 3rd August 2014, 12:02 AM   #14
weltersys is offline weltersys  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norman bates View Post
I found my Keele W-bin had no bass near it, but it hit you in the back of the room.

As also I've been in dance clubs with the bass horns on the edge of the dance floor. There was no bass until you got way off the dance floor.
Norman,

Both examples you cite are demonstrations of room modes, which occur regardless of cabinet design. Believe me, after measuring dozens of subs of all different types outdoors, and using horn loaded subs on thousands of outdoor shows, the sound pressure is most intense the nearer you are to the horn mouth.
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Old 3rd August 2014, 12:11 AM   #15
djn is offline djn  United States
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Here is a link to a site where the guy explores the Klipsch Rebel. Good read.

retro vintage modern hi-fi: Rebel

.
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Old 3rd August 2014, 09:19 AM   #16
norman bates is offline norman bates  United States
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lol, I've had the w-bin and sealed and ported subs all in the same room in the same place.

Regardless of what it measures, it sure doesn't sound like it has bass close to it.

I guess Bruce and I are completely wrong, not.

Last edited by norman bates; 3rd August 2014 at 09:22 AM.
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Old 5th August 2014, 07:55 AM   #17
djk is offline djk
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Olson (RCA)

Horns can sound like they have no bass right up close, this strange phenomenon can be heard when walking up to a mono Klipschorn with the HF disconnected.

Olson, section 1.5, Fig. 1.2, 1.3

Up close the phase angle between the pressure and the particle velocity in a spherical sound wave is 90°, this corrects itself at at a distance as it becomes a plane wave.

The charts show phase angle vs distance and particle velocity vs distance. Distance in both cases expressed as (2Pi/W)D, wavelength and distance assumed to be in feet.

For a 10° difference at 40hz it works out to like 22.5 feet.

For a 30° difference at 40hz it works out to like 8.2 feet.

The ratio of the absolute magnitude of the particle velocity to the pressure starts to flatten out beyond 8.2 feet for 40hz.

The very high losses at low frequencies would indicate that mic in the mouth is meaningless, but should be measured at a great distance and use inverse square to find the 1M spl (which is standard).

I've had people come up to me and tell me they couldn't hear anything coming out of a cabinet, it must be blown (yet it's pounding in the back of the room).
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Old 2nd December 2017, 10:42 PM   #18
Dennis Rech is offline Dennis Rech  United States
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Originally Posted by mashaffer View Post
Corner horn systems like Klipsch seem so very complicated. Why couldn't it be as simple as two woofers on baffles open toward the corner as shown below (pardon the crude drawing) with a peice of MDF glued on top.

mike
Keep in mind that the purpose of a horn enclosure is to carefully, mathematically allow the waveform to expand and not be allowed to turn back on itself.
The horn is a 3 dimensional enclosure, yours is a two dimensional enclosure. You are sort of guiding the path in one direction, but neglecting the up and down dimension. The sound path should be allowed to grow exponentially. The other issue is that the two woofers will soon be out of phase without guidance and will cancel out.
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