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Old 28th February 2006, 11:40 PM   #1
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Moose Jaw
Default Planning new setup, need help (long)

Current setup :
- Pair of AR.Com DIY monitors (that I love);
- 12" Alpine Type-R sub with 150W PE amp.

I will be building a home theater system, and I've been spending a LOT of time these last few weeks (heck, months!) sifting through tons of posts on various forums, mostly regarding which equipment to get - which receiver, speakers, sub, projector, etc. - and this is basically the finishing touch because all my decisions are made - save one.

I am planning to build three more DIYs because I am quite happy with them. I also knew I'd have to replace that car sub, and get a more powerful amplifier for the sub too. I had longed for stereo subs, and since I'd need to build stands for the L/R monitors anyways, why not integrate a side-firing sub in each enclosure, and make it a tower! That would also dispense with the requisite separate sub enclosures, so less real estate.

So, direct from the designer (Ed Frias) of the monitor I'll be building, here are the dimensions :

Outside dimensions are :
13" high x 8 3/4" wide x 9 1/4" deep

Inside dimensions are :
11 ½” high x 7 3/8” wide x 7 ¾ deep

This is with 3/4" MDF - Ed suggests using 1" thick, therefore adding 1/2 inch to all exterior dimensions. So, this leaves me with a depth of 9.75". This is insufficient unless I use a 8" sub, so I am discussing with Ed how to re-arrange the dimensions of the speaker to keep the internal volume the same, and the sound the same, but to give me a deeper enclosure.

So assuming I succeed, here are my questions :

1. I've seen several designs using side-firing subs, but I've never heard one. Does the fact that it's side-firing affect the sound? I should mention that I'll be using this system 50/50 music/movies. I want nice clean bass (hence my desire for sealed), but I would want it to reach as low as possible given the confines I'm imposing on this;

2. Should it be firing towards the inside or outside? Or does it make a difference?

3. Now, the big one : Which driver, and even, which size? 8 or 10? The 8 is attractive to me because it doesn't necessitate me to modify my original cabinet dimensions, and it will thus make my install quite tidy and small. However :

4. What kind of bass can I expect out of two 8" drivers? (Interesting note : I could also go with four, I suppose - two per speaker. I should also have mentioned that within the realm of reason, cost is not really an object here.) And which are available? The only ones that really look alright to me are the Ascendant Audio Assassin 8 and the ApexJr 8". I prefer the former, but this is not based on any scientific measurement. However, assuming I can modify the cabinet, the driver I'd REALLY like is the 10" Dayton RS Reference subs (Hi-Fi version, I think, unless I am told to go with the Hi-Output version for my application). This is again not based on anything scientific, but my research on this driver has yielded quite a number of satisfied owners. And heck - OK, I'll admit it, looks are important to me. The RS and Assassin 8 look killer to me.

So, the options as I see them :

- 1 8" driver per side;
- 2 8" driver per side;
- 1 10" driver per side;
- 2 10" driver per side.

With the dimensions I've listed at the top, and considering the resultant interior space, which of the above would you recommend? And using which driver(s)?

5. Finally, what about amplification? One amplifier per enclosure (for the subs only, I mean) or one for the whole rig? I was thinking of 250-300W.

Whew, that's it for now, I think. Thanks a lot here; like I've said, I've done a LOT of research over the last months, and I'd really appreciate some concrete help for this last hurdle of mine. Thanks!
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Old 1st March 2006, 12:50 AM   #2
nebelk is offline nebelk  United States
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I'm not sure if this helps, but i've been looking for a smallish driver for bass duties (in a tl) and came across elemtal designs eu-700, i think it might be worth looking into for you.

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Old 1st March 2006, 04:31 AM   #3
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: NorCal
Does the footprint of the bass box HAVE to match that of the AR's? Looks like the Dayton HF wants about 2 cubic feet (vented box), which would be tough (!) to do with a 8 3/4" wide x 9 1/4" deep footprint.

I'd think about building separate woofer boxes at whatever height works out as an appropriate speaker stand, and adjusting the width and depth to accomodate the chosen woofer(s).

The Adire Extremis should work in the size box you're looking at, but they may not do movies as well as they would music. I've never heard them, but they have a good reputation for sound quality. Take a look at the RAW Acoustics HT3 for an example.

I'm glad to hear that you like the's! They are on the short list for my HT rig once I've saved up a few more $$.
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Old 1st March 2006, 05:07 AM   #4
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Moose Jaw
Originally posted by lousymusician
Does the footprint of the bass box HAVE to match that of the AR's? Looks like the Dayton HF wants about 2 cubic feet (vented box), which would be tough (!) to do with a 8 3/4" wide x 9 1/4" deep footprint.
Yeah, I'd much rather have a square, uniform design for aesthetic reasons. Plus, remember :

1. My dimensions will be a bit bigger with 1" MDF, but I'm trying to get ways to modify the footprint (I like the term, I should have used it earlier) of the AR.Com;

2. I want a sealed enclosure - for the sound, first and foremost, but it also has the added advantage of requiring smaller volumes. The Colossi (newest design by PE) has two RS 10 HO subs per enclosure, with just about 10" X 10" interior space!
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Old 1st March 2006, 05:48 AM   #5
simon5 is offline simon5  Canada
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Location: Québec, Québec
Check these :

Since you've got a small enclosure, go with the HO instead of the HF if you go with Dayton...
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Old 6th March 2006, 07:11 PM   #6
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Vancouver
Default HT-3 Speaker and Movies

Have no fear, the Raw Acoustics HT-3 does movies - with gusto. I have a pair on loan from Al, and I watched parts of four different movies yesterday. In each case the voices were very articulate and the bass was phenomenal - much better than I was getting from a single REL Sub with a 10" driver.

The movies that I selected were:

Lord of the Rings - The Two Towers
U571 (the submarine movie - I think the number is correct)
The Fifth Element

The bass that I was getting was fundamental; that is, the floor and walls vibrated - scary. I'm sure the placement of the woofer low in the cabinet is responsible for this subwoofer effect.
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Old 20th March 2006, 09:57 PM   #7
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Location: Moose Jaw
I was crunching a few numbers, but may need some help with the design proper...

It appears the internal dimensions of the monitor per se cannot be modified, but I could have more depth with a dummy chamber (and the port the same length, just not sticking out as deep into the monitor) on top. So, if I do this, it appears to me I could easily wriggle enough internal space to fit two Assassin 8 subs per enclosure.

(I have attached a very very rough sketch of the enclosure I'm considering, viewed from the side, with only one sub in the drawing.)

Amplification has been solved - God bless pro Audio! Behringer EP2500 or the likes, probably - enough to power four subs no problem, 2 ohm stable.

So, is this viable? Will it go LOW? And how does the side-firing affect the sound?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg speaker.jpg (7.9 KB, 81 views)
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Old 22nd March 2006, 08:20 AM   #8
simon5 is offline simon5  Canada
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Location: Québec, Québec
Side firing won't affect the sound at all if you crossover low.

Go LOW? Depends what's your definition of low, depends on the space you give to those woofers and also if they are sealed, ported or used with passive radiators...

4 of those on the other hand will give you enough loudness.
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