Hi,
If you would like to see information about
my self designed subwoofer, you can take a look
at the following address:
http://www.karoliinasalminen.com/fanesubwooferinstructions.html
Not best possible driver for home subwoofer, but
sounds quite ok despite of that. Not as good as
Velodyne HGS-18 or Genelec HTS-4 though.
Best Wishes,
Karoliina
If you would like to see information about
my self designed subwoofer, you can take a look
at the following address:
http://www.karoliinasalminen.com/fanesubwooferinstructions.html
Not best possible driver for home subwoofer, but
sounds quite ok despite of that. Not as good as
Velodyne HGS-18 or Genelec HTS-4 though.
Best Wishes,
Karoliina
Not too underrated, the driver is quite good, but there is one
problem in it and it is the relatively short X-max and high
resonant frequency. For home theater subwoofer, also a driver
with Fs lower than 20 Hz could be beneficial. The Fs in this
driver is >30 Hz. The impedance peak is on the usable range
and with 100 ohms it is a problem to the amplifier, it can't
give enough voltage out unless it is a very big one (NAD 216 THX is too weak unless it is in the bridge mode where its performance is adequate with Fane).
North Leviathan would be very nice with
its 38 mm Xmax and Fs of 14 Hz.
problem in it and it is the relatively short X-max and high
resonant frequency. For home theater subwoofer, also a driver
with Fs lower than 20 Hz could be beneficial. The Fs in this
driver is >30 Hz. The impedance peak is on the usable range
and with 100 ohms it is a problem to the amplifier, it can't
give enough voltage out unless it is a very big one (NAD 216 THX is too weak unless it is in the bridge mode where its performance is adequate with Fane).
North Leviathan would be very nice with
its 38 mm Xmax and Fs of 14 Hz.
that's quite a small amp for that Fane driver - most stuff i know of that uses Fane drivers is PA so loads of power out the amps is less of an issue than with home cinema stuff.
the other thing which might be a factor is if your sub is a direct radiator - all the low and mid stuff i know of with Fane drivers is either bandpass or horn loaded.
for going down to 20Hz and getting trouser flapping stuff you can't beat that PD 24" driver they use in the Turbosound sub. i think the PD1850 goes pretty low as well if you want to stick to an 18".
the other thing which might be a factor is if your sub is a direct radiator - all the low and mid stuff i know of with Fane drivers is either bandpass or horn loaded.
for going down to 20Hz and getting trouser flapping stuff you can't beat that PD 24" driver they use in the Turbosound sub. i think the PD1850 goes pretty low as well if you want to stick to an 18".
I'll check the PD driver. Could you please give me the link?
But how about
Adire Audio Tumult?
http://www.adireaudio.com/diy/Drivers/Adire/tumult.htm
More than three times the displacement of 18" Fane
with an 15 inch driver.
The size of the driver is not an issue but the enclosure
should be preferably reasonable so that I could fit it into
my apartment. The Fane sub is already taking one cubic
meter from the room.
But how about
Adire Audio Tumult?
http://www.adireaudio.com/diy/Drivers/Adire/tumult.htm
More than three times the displacement of 18" Fane
with an 15 inch driver.
The size of the driver is not an issue but the enclosure
should be preferably reasonable so that I could fit it into
my apartment. The Fane sub is already taking one cubic
meter from the room.
Karoliina said:
Most amplifiers give out a constant drive voltage. The impedance curve of the speaker shows how much current is drawn at any specific frequency. As long as the lowest impedance in the speaker's frequency range can be handled by the amp, there will not be a problem.
As long as the Fane or any speaker has a smooth frequency response, the height of the impedance at any frequency does not matter, as long as the amp has enough current to handle the lowest impedance it hits.
If the frequency response is smooth around 100 Hz, the amplifier will not have to give additional voltage there, even though the speaker is drawing much less wattage at 100 Hz.
I notice that Adire does not list a dealer for Finland. I would suggest you call or Email Adire about that. You know how companies are about updating their website-they might have one in Finland after all. Here is the Contact Page from their website. I personally find a phone call is often the best way to get info like this.
http://www.adireaudio.com/contacts.htm
Adire
I live in Seattle and I got a chance to check out the Tumult last week at Adire headquarters. I'm not sure it's "done" yet, but the prototype driver they had hooked up to the test equipment looked finished and even more impressive than the very impressive picture they have on the website (HUGE backside). Even without being in a cabinet, this thing was vibrating the place in a solid and even fashion, and the linear excursion is simply stunning. The cone was coming out of the basket so far without distortion I could barely believe my eyes.
I would definetly call Dan to get the complete info. He was really nice and had a straight answer for all my questions. Like I said, I'm not sure if it's in production quite yet, but what I saw seemed ready to go. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. This is definitely a sub driver to consider even if you're on the other side of the world.
I live in Seattle and I got a chance to check out the Tumult last week at Adire headquarters. I'm not sure it's "done" yet, but the prototype driver they had hooked up to the test equipment looked finished and even more impressive than the very impressive picture they have on the website (HUGE backside). Even without being in a cabinet, this thing was vibrating the place in a solid and even fashion, and the linear excursion is simply stunning. The cone was coming out of the basket so far without distortion I could barely believe my eyes.
I would definetly call Dan to get the complete info. He was really nice and had a straight answer for all my questions. Like I said, I'm not sure if it's in production quite yet, but what I saw seemed ready to go. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. This is definitely a sub driver to consider even if you're on the other side of the world.
The PD 24" driver is at :
www.precision-devices.com/asps/Search.asp?types=yes&type=24
it's a monster of a driver, but it does sound good.
www.precision-devices.com/asps/Search.asp?types=yes&type=24
it's a monster of a driver, but it does sound good.
I checked the specs at the Precision Devices website. The voice coil winding is 30 mm long. The height of the magnetic gap is 15 mm long.
Linear excursion is generally found to be:
(voice coil length-magnetic gap height)/2, so in this case, the linear excursion of this speaker is (+/- ) 7.5 mm.
Most speakers can go physically farther than their linear excursion. You can generally count on any speaker having a physical maximum excursion between 1.5 and 2 times longer than the linear.
We dealt with the issue of very large woofers on a previous thread here, and quite a few members felt that when you factor in cost, etc., you are better off with 4 12" woofers rather than a 24" woofer. The cone area is approximately the same for four 12" as for a single 24".
The consensus, among people who have hooked them up, is that hooking up four speakers together yields an increase of 6 dB in sensitivity over a single speaker. So hooking four 12" speakers rated 91 dB @ 1W/1M will yield a system that is 97dB @ 1W/1M together.
There is the issue of cone breakup. Even though the Precison Devices has a huge 6" diameter voice coil, the fact remains that the edge of the cone is going to be around 19" away from the edge of the voice coil. In a 12" with a 2" voice coil, the edge of each speaker will be only 8 inches from the voice coil. The shorter the distance from the edge to the voice coil, the less the cone breakup. And cones do break up, no matter how stiff the cone material, at lower frequencies. So four 12" will give cleaner sound.
Just throwing some thoughts around that you might wish to consider.
Linear excursion is generally found to be:
(voice coil length-magnetic gap height)/2, so in this case, the linear excursion of this speaker is (+/- ) 7.5 mm.
Most speakers can go physically farther than their linear excursion. You can generally count on any speaker having a physical maximum excursion between 1.5 and 2 times longer than the linear.
We dealt with the issue of very large woofers on a previous thread here, and quite a few members felt that when you factor in cost, etc., you are better off with 4 12" woofers rather than a 24" woofer. The cone area is approximately the same for four 12" as for a single 24".
The consensus, among people who have hooked them up, is that hooking up four speakers together yields an increase of 6 dB in sensitivity over a single speaker. So hooking four 12" speakers rated 91 dB @ 1W/1M will yield a system that is 97dB @ 1W/1M together.
There is the issue of cone breakup. Even though the Precison Devices has a huge 6" diameter voice coil, the fact remains that the edge of the cone is going to be around 19" away from the edge of the voice coil. In a 12" with a 2" voice coil, the edge of each speaker will be only 8 inches from the voice coil. The shorter the distance from the edge to the voice coil, the less the cone breakup. And cones do break up, no matter how stiff the cone material, at lower frequencies. So four 12" will give cleaner sound.
Just throwing some thoughts around that you might wish to consider.
Sounds quite like my current Fane to me. It has quite
the same charasteristics than the PD driver except that it is
18 inch.
But have you looked at Tumult? It has 68 mm Xmax peak
to peak (that is linear excursion).
http://www.adireaudio.com/diy_audio/drivers/adire/tumult.htm
Actually their claim "Tumult is simply the most displacement you can buy, period. " seems to be true since it exceeds even
the 24 inch driver because of its long excursion.
the same charasteristics than the PD driver except that it is
18 inch.
But have you looked at Tumult? It has 68 mm Xmax peak
to peak (that is linear excursion).
http://www.adireaudio.com/diy_audio/drivers/adire/tumult.htm
Actually their claim "Tumult is simply the most displacement you can buy, period. " seems to be true since it exceeds even
the 24 inch driver because of its long excursion.
Attachments
Just to throw some application info on the PD 24" driver in - all the Turbosound rigs I know that use them are 5-ways with the 24s doing a sort of sub-sub-bass, just to really get the trouser flapping going in big venues when you want a bit more welly than you get with 18" subs. They are rarely used over much more than an octave or two, letting the 18" subs do the rest of the bottom end.
To be honest, the 24 is probably a total overkill for home use, unless you have a living room the size of a cinema. Even the PD1850 is probably a little excessive unless you've got very understanding or vibration loving neighbours.
To be honest, the 24 is probably a total overkill for home use, unless you have a living room the size of a cinema. Even the PD1850 is probably a little excessive unless you've got very understanding or vibration loving neighbours.
kelticwizard said:Karoliina:
Tried checking out the Tumult yesterday but could not locate the page. Went there again today, found it and perused the page.
All I can say is: Gulp!!
How about using four of these?
127 dB at 20 Hz without exceeding the linear excursion
and maximum power limitation. That requires 6400 W
of amplification, but 127 dB at 20 Hz is quite loud, isn't it.
Redeye said:
Actually I have already 18 inch Fane driver that is quite similar
to the 18 inch PD. It is not even nearly enough for me.
Not a overkill. I am planning to get a subwoofer that has
a similar driver than in Velodyne HGS-18. As you know,
the Velodyne is home subwoofer. Exceeding linear Xmax
with PD/Fane type driver is easy. That results audible distortion.
If you compare it to Velodyne, it is really different. Velodyne
causes no audible distortion. It is completely clean and
deep. Velodyne has a driver that has a very long Xmax,
something comparable to Tumult. A friend of mine owns
the Velodyne and it sounds far better than my Fane, no
distortion, no problems with dynamic range etc.
And if you look at Adire Audio Tumult's specs, one 15 inch
Tumult is propably more than one 24 inch PD and it is
3.5 times more (in terms of displacement) than one
18 inch PD/Fane. I am expecting that I could do a
subwoofer from Tumult that could be directly comparable
to Velodyne's HGS series in terms of low distortion.
Guess what. I am living in a row house..... ;-)
Shake, Rattle and Roll...
If you want to crack walls, loosen ceiling panels and rattle the roof tiles, consider the Genesis-1.
With 2000W+2000W 16Hz-120Hz, at 6 metres back sitting on the couch, these will shake your head and blur your vision.
The bass line array setup works bigtime.
Another technique is the ServoDrive sub cabinet.
Eric.
If you want to crack walls, loosen ceiling panels and rattle the roof tiles, consider the Genesis-1.
With 2000W+2000W 16Hz-120Hz, at 6 metres back sitting on the couch, these will shake your head and blur your vision.
The bass line array setup works bigtime.
Another technique is the ServoDrive sub cabinet.
Eric.
Attachments
Re: Shake, Rattle and Roll...
Below 80 Hz there is very little that moves air as effectively as Tom Danley's servo-drive. A fallout of his development of acoustic levitation technology for NASA. You do have to buy complete units at the moment (althou some unused kits may still be loating around from when a kit was offered to BASSList members)
dave
mrfeedback said:
Below 80 Hz there is very little that moves air as effectively as Tom Danley's servo-drive. A fallout of his development of acoustic levitation technology for NASA. You do have to buy complete units at the moment (althou some unused kits may still be loating around from when a kit was offered to BASSList members)
dave
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