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Old 22nd February 2006, 06:03 AM   #1
JohnnyJ is offline JohnnyJ  Australia
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Default PA Audio System Discussion

Been a while since I was last in this forum, moved to AUS

Anyhow.. I was last thinking about grabbing 2 of the oh-so-lovely 18" tumult's when they come out, and powering them with enough power to have them perform at their maximum potential. I also need recommendations for my loud speakers, I'm looking for drivers that are seen to be "among the top drivers".. I don't want bad/average loud speakers - they need to be pretty damn decent. I'm also looking for equipment to tune all these drivers, like one of those equalizer boards where you can set the slider high/low for each frequency or whatever.. I'm not an audio expert, you guys know your stuff so fire away with some suggestions for equipment please. I live in Australia (QLD for the aussies out there), budget converted into US $ = somewhere between $3000 - $4000 MAXXXX.

PS: I was thinking of buying my drivers without any enclosures etc, referring to the loud speakers in specific (this is mostly due to the fact that it is usually cheaper to buy the drivers and build your own enclosure/loud speaker box.) here, BUT - if there are any suggestions of GOOOOOOOD loud speakers sets out there, that would compliment 2 tumult's nicely, then please.. don't hesitate.

ALSO: Any other tips/hints or suggestions on the system would be greatly appreciated, but - please don't suggest any other subs, as I'm strictly after the tumults. Please remember that I am based in Australia, so I'm not really after shipping parts over unless I absolutely have to.. reasons are obvious, hassle, risk, extra money.

Cheers
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Old 22nd February 2006, 09:07 AM   #2
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Default Re: PA Audio System Discussion

Quote:
Originally posted by JohnnyJ
.. I'm not an audio expert...please don't suggest any other subs, as I'm strictly after the tumults...
They are completely the wrong driver for a PA system, no matter how much you have set your heart on them. Sorry.
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Old 22nd February 2006, 03:01 PM   #3
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You mentioned PA in your title. Is that what they will be used for? If so, Al is right, the Tumults are not meant for that. PA speakers require PA drivers, much different animal.
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Old 22nd February 2006, 05:37 PM   #4
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Not sure if it's a good idea but I will slightly disagree with the mod's here.

If your intended use is something like doing parties up to 100 people max, your music/audio of choice contains lots of information below 30-35 Hz, you don't mind large and/or heavey cabinets and Adire does ensure you that the Tumults will handle at least 500 Wrms a piece for the intended use and time of use, than it might just be the thing your looking for.

If however your choice of audio isn't limited to subwoofertests and freakbass-effects-movies, than a good-grade single 15" PA woofer could outclass both Tumults SPL-wise (40 Hz and up) with power to spare.

Wkr Johan
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Old 23rd February 2006, 11:54 AM   #5
JohnnyJ is offline JohnnyJ  Australia
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Well, I spoke to a dude a while back about this, he is well known around here as far as I know (can't remember who, will check my history of posts and get his username) and according to him it would be a really good idea, so I guess he was wrong then. I want HUUUGE bass, I'm looking to go below 20Hz, 10 would be cool but I know that can be a bit of a problem to achieve in PA [with my limited knowledge] so I'd be happy with between 10-15Hz lowest.

Hmmmm, I'll quickly check what we worked out, he did some calculations and stuff with an audio program (WinISD Pro I think), we were going to use 2 huge enclosures with ports and tune it quite low, let me see if I can dig it up somewhere, but in the meantime, let the discussion keep rolling.
EDIT: Guy's name was Tweeker

I'm after bass that will shake stuff off the walls and drinks off tables , while quality is there too. Maybe not quite that level of bass but yeah, pretty damn big amount of bass will do. Seeing as I mostly listen to hip-hop/rap/r&b etc, I need and want extreme bass. This system will be for a large sized bedroom.

Could I get some possible suggestions for a system then, or on different system parts please?

Cheers Fellas/Mistresses

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Old 23rd February 2006, 12:55 PM   #6
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Johnny i am glad you want bass down to 20 or even 10 Hz, more rap and hip hop does have low blow bass but there is no point trying to get much db from 10, it will be too low to have an affect really.

How much power do you have on tap and what size of enclosure can you get away with?
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Old 23rd February 2006, 01:04 PM   #7
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Ok, so you don't want a PA system, you want a domestic one, why didn't you say that to start with?

If you put a FFT on an average hip-hop track, you will find most of the energy in the bass region peaks around 50-80Hz, so you don't need to go that low. I would guess a couple of Tumults tuned to around 25Hz would do you fine. No need to go down to 10 at all, and in fact tuning that low will suck all the power out of your amp, and actually decrease the response in the frequencies you want.
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Old 23rd February 2006, 03:23 PM   #8
AJinFLA is offline AJinFLA  United States
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If extremely loud hip-hop/rap bass is your goal, I would suggest the JBL 2268HPL 18" differential drive subwoofer, rather than the Tumult. The Tumult will certainly play louder below 20hz, but this means naught when it comes to hip-hop bass. As was pointed out earlier, it's more the 50-110hz region is where you need max spl. (a nice peak @ 80hz usually).
$435(JBL) vs $650(Tumult) http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Tra...cer%20List.pdf
Specs: http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Thi...Parameters.pdf
JBL: 23mm xmax vs 33mm Tumult, but the JBL is 95db sens vs 89db Tumult.
A single JBL will run neck and neck with a single Tumult, but 2 JBL's, $870 vs $650 will be absolutely no contest.
Here's a sub with two 2268HPL's: http://www.jblpro.com/srx700/PDF/JBL.SRX728S.pdf
130+db should make you and your guests happy. Or deaf.
My

Cheers,

AJ

edit: just realized the Tumult may not even be available at the moment. The JBL is. May even be available down under or from NZ, reducing ship costs.
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Old 1st March 2006, 03:35 PM   #9
JohnnyJ is offline JohnnyJ  Australia
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AJinFLA

I'm not quite happy with that 27Hz in the frequency range for the JBL 2268HPL.. I'm really set on 15-20Hz as lowest frequency, at what db that comes out I don't really mind, I just want to be able to play 15Hz around there for my own personal reasons

Other than that, I am also after quality, and I am sure you'll agree when I say that the JBL won't compete in that area? I'd prefer drivers that can give me below 20Hz @ decent db (for those tracks that hit that frequency area), good sound quality is definitely a must.

I am not shooting down your suggestion in any way, I am just trying to discuss the option and stating the things that aren't up to my wanted standard. You also stated that for hip-hop music, the most important frequency range for the bass is around 50-110hz. Well, I play a lot of beats that hit below 20hz, and I need the sub to perform well when playing low-frequency beats as well as the higher bass range.

If you had 2 Tumult 18's and 2 of these JBL 18's facing off against each other in parallel rooms, each pair in a suiting enclosure powered by the needed power they require individually as pairs, which would be a better choice for hip-hop/r&b/rap music? Taking everything into account, lowest frequency, db and sound quality?

Cheers



NOTE: I won't be purchasing any equipment until probably August or later. In terms of space = estimating roughly a working area of 160cm-200cm length x 100cm width x 200cm height.
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Old 3rd March 2006, 11:44 PM   #10
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If you have a good reason to need below 20Hz, that's fine but please don't get caught up in the numbers game. I have been building speakers as a hobby for over 30 years and have never considered 20 Hz to be very important. Until home theatre came along that is. If these are for music and you want really good, gut thumping, bone rattling, make you queasy, run to the bathroom kind of bass: you want PA drivers.

A couple of these Seleniums will do the trick.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshow...Number=264-396

As mentioned before, you're asking a lot out of an amp (ie: suck the life out of) to get below 20 Hz considering there's rarely any music down there. I have to ask why you think you need it?

When you say you want to play 15Hz, what is it you're going to play? What source material and what equipment do you have that contains it or can play it? You can't hear that low. It's a physical sensation at that point not aural and it doesn't rattle you, it's simply too low. The thumping bass from hip hop is higher than that.
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