Id like to add a subwoofer to my home theatre set up and I was wondering if anyone could help me deciding what to buy in terms of a driver and amplifier.
Now I am new to the speaker design game but I have quite a bit of experience working with MDF.
Some points to add:
-My lounge room is 4m x 5m
-I am not particularly fussed about the size of the box
-I live in South Australia
-My budget is AUD$500-$600.
Ive got my heart set on a 12 inch driver but I am open to suggestions.
Any help will be greatly appreciated
Now I am new to the speaker design game but I have quite a bit of experience working with MDF.
Some points to add:
-My lounge room is 4m x 5m
-I am not particularly fussed about the size of the box
-I live in South Australia
-My budget is AUD$500-$600.
Ive got my heart set on a 12 inch driver but I am open to suggestions.
Any help will be greatly appreciated
Enclosure Survivor
Well, as far as which sub to use...that depends on your taste. Go and listen to some in your price range. But don't worry, a less than great driver can be made to sound good if tuned to the room/style of music and power you have. It just takes some time finding out all of your wants. But for the most part, look for a driver (if it fits in your price range) with a lower Fs...maybe around 29Hz or lower. Also look for one with a cast basket, just stronger, less resonation and makes for a stonger medium for speaker component connections (ie. magnets/cones/surrounds etc,). Make sure that the cone is made of fairly strong material (less cone distortion during movement), decent surround (something that will allow the cone to move freely while still controling it etc.). As well, look at how the driver is put together...spider glue/cone glue and tinsel leeds are good and strong (not going to short against the basket).
Now for the enclosure...for me a good Vented does the trick. But if you feel "randie" build a Transmission Line...oh ya, now that's the stuff!
Please feel free to add any other coments people...I may have missed a few in driver selection.
Rino Odorico
Well, as far as which sub to use...that depends on your taste. Go and listen to some in your price range. But don't worry, a less than great driver can be made to sound good if tuned to the room/style of music and power you have. It just takes some time finding out all of your wants. But for the most part, look for a driver (if it fits in your price range) with a lower Fs...maybe around 29Hz or lower. Also look for one with a cast basket, just stronger, less resonation and makes for a stonger medium for speaker component connections (ie. magnets/cones/surrounds etc,). Make sure that the cone is made of fairly strong material (less cone distortion during movement), decent surround (something that will allow the cone to move freely while still controling it etc.). As well, look at how the driver is put together...spider glue/cone glue and tinsel leeds are good and strong (not going to short against the basket).
Now for the enclosure...for me a good Vented does the trick. But if you feel "randie" build a Transmission Line...oh ya, now that's the stuff!
Please feel free to add any other coments people...I may have missed a few in driver selection.
Rino Odorico
viper073 said:
In terms of the driver, Acoustic Concepts carries the Adire Audio Tempest driver. This is the driver that I used for my sub. Here is their webpage:
http://www.acousticconcepts.com.au/Page2.htm
It is a relatively inexpensive 15" subwoofer. Here is the adire audio website with the tempest page:
http://www.adireaudio.com/diy/Drivers/Adire/tempest.htm
They also make a 12" shiva, that Acoustic Concepts might carry.
--
Brian
I assume this cost includes the sub amp !!
Jaycar carry a range of sub amps. up to 500w rms into 4ohms
WES Components go up to 200W, I think
I can't comment on quality, cos the only one I have used is the Jaycar 150w, which did a pretty good job !!
but the one I think I would really like to try is the Redgum sub amp carried by Acoustic Concepts. I don't know the cost etc but I suspect it will be "a cut above" the Jaycar and WES in both performance and cost
There is a mob in WA that carries the Hypex range.
there may also be other suppliers too.
Good Hunting, and please let us know if you find anything that's really good at a "nice" price !!!
Jaycar carry a range of sub amps. up to 500w rms into 4ohms
WES Components go up to 200W, I think
I can't comment on quality, cos the only one I have used is the Jaycar 150w, which did a pretty good job !!
but the one I think I would really like to try is the Redgum sub amp carried by Acoustic Concepts. I don't know the cost etc but I suspect it will be "a cut above" the Jaycar and WES in both performance and cost
There is a mob in WA that carries the Hypex range.
there may also be other suppliers too.
Good Hunting, and please let us know if you find anything that's really good at a "nice" price !!!
Hey thanks guys!
After reading your advice I think im leaning towards a shiva 12inch from acoustic concepts. They also do Redgum amplifiers there too (thanks Andy!) so I'll look into it.
I rang Wagner in melbourne about a 12inch peerless driver and 150 Watt amplifier, and it came in around $580 (within my budget! )
So I'll be interested to see how the Shiva will stack up in terms of price. I'll be ringing Monday so i'll let you know how i go!
Thanks again guys
After reading your advice I think im leaning towards a shiva 12inch from acoustic concepts. They also do Redgum amplifiers there too (thanks Andy!) so I'll look into it.
I rang Wagner in melbourne about a 12inch peerless driver and 150 Watt amplifier, and it came in around $580 (within my budget!
)So I'll be interested to see how the Shiva will stack up in terms of price. I'll be ringing Monday so i'll let you know how i go!
Thanks again guys
Direct from Acoustic Concepts
Shiva $272.50 plus GST
Tempest $385.00 Plust GST
Maelstrom $765.00 plus GST
Brahma 10" $780.00 plus GST
Brahma 12" $850.00 Plus GST
Brahma 15" $995.00 plus GST
PR-15 $235.oo plus GST
AV-8 $186.00 plus GST
Redgum Amp all prices include GST.
RGSW-1 $395.00 , RGSW-2 $465.00
High Current conversion, $75.00
Freight costs Eastern States $17.00 per speaker/Redgum amp, WA and NT $24.00
Gees, hope they don't mind me posting this !!........
Just in case !!! You didn't get these prices from me, OK !!!
Shiva $272.50 plus GST
Tempest $385.00 Plust GST
Maelstrom $765.00 plus GST
Brahma 10" $780.00 plus GST
Brahma 12" $850.00 Plus GST
Brahma 15" $995.00 plus GST
PR-15 $235.oo plus GST
AV-8 $186.00 plus GST
Redgum Amp all prices include GST.
RGSW-1 $395.00 , RGSW-2 $465.00
High Current conversion, $75.00
Freight costs Eastern States $17.00 per speaker/Redgum amp, WA and NT $24.00
Gees, hope they don't mind me posting this !!........
Just in case !!! You didn't get these prices from me, OK !!!
Re: Direct from Acoustic Concepts
Joe Rasmussen's Critical Q Subwoofer (Vacuum State Electronics) designed in Australia uses the Jaycar Amp & the XLS woofer. To make it a bit cheaper you could get a smaller amp.
dave
Joe Rasmussen's Critical Q Subwoofer (Vacuum State Electronics) designed in Australia uses the Jaycar Amp & the XLS woofer. To make it a bit cheaper you could get a smaller amp.
dave
Wow those redgum amps were expensive!
So I think ive got my heart set on a shiva 12inch. Itll cost about $315 to get it to my door.
Now I gotta choose an amp.
Wagner (the guys who sell peerless speakers) have a 150watt amp for $289, and a 100 watt for $249.
Jaycar have a 150 watt for $289 (trade discount which I can get through work ) or a 240 watt for $335 (starting to blow the budget!)
So really this is the only decision I have left (in terms of components). Im just hoping that the amp will be powerful enough to driver the shiva. Does anyone know if the shiva is power hungry??
Any further recommendations before I take the plunge??
Thanks for your info so far.
PS once ive got the stuff, im gonna pick your brains about box designs!!
So I think ive got my heart set on a shiva 12inch. Itll cost about $315 to get it to my door.
Now I gotta choose an amp.
Wagner (the guys who sell peerless speakers) have a 150watt amp for $289, and a 100 watt for $249.
Jaycar have a 150 watt for $289 (trade discount which I can get through work
) or a 240 watt for $335 (starting to blow the budget!)So really this is the only decision I have left (in terms of components). Im just hoping that the amp will be powerful enough to driver the shiva. Does anyone know if the shiva is power hungry??
Any further recommendations before I take the plunge??
Thanks for your info so far.
PS once ive got the stuff, im gonna pick your brains about box designs!!
OK. So ive ordered my shiva driver and it should be here in a couple of days .
Ive decided to go for a jaycar amp which is rated at 150watts (4 ohms)
So now i come to box design. While going through the adire website i decided to go for the 54 litre box. This gives a Q of 0.707 and they recommend it for general home theater / music use. (any comments here?)
Ive read a lot about using stuffing inside the box and how it makes the driver think theres more volume.
My question is: how much stuffing do I use? Do i pack it in until i cant pack no more or is there a general rule of thumb about how much to use?
Also, the design from adire gives plans for a down-firing sub. Im more inclined to have a vertical sub. Is there any advantages / disadvantages with these systems??
.Ive decided to go for a jaycar amp which is rated at 150watts (4 ohms)
So now i come to box design. While going through the adire website i decided to go for the 54 litre box. This gives a Q of 0.707 and they recommend it for general home theater / music use. (any comments here?)
Ive read a lot about using stuffing inside the box and how it makes the driver think theres more volume.
My question is: how much stuffing do I use? Do i pack it in until i cant pack no more or is there a general rule of thumb about how much to use?
Also, the design from adire gives plans for a down-firing sub. Im more inclined to have a vertical sub. Is there any advantages / disadvantages with these systems??
viper073 said:
The butterworth alignment is maximally flat. I tend to like a little lower Q for better group delay and a better match with room lift. But mine is in a 48 l recycled box (one of those temporary solutions -- installed now for 2 years
) and it is fine.I'd line the walls with fiberglass insulation and load the rest with just a light fluff of polyester wool (pillow stuffing) or sheeps wool (i understand there are a few sheep in OZ
) or a mix (poly keep sthe wool from sagging.Front loading will remove the floorloading, but the woofer should live a little longer.
dave
Results so far....
OK, Im half way there. Ive got the external box built, the amp is here, and the driver is coming tomorrow. Now i gotta make the bracings, complete the box, seal it all up, stuff it to buggery, then install the amp and driver, hook it all up and away I go.
Now for the questions:
Ive read that you have to "break in" the sub. IS this true? what do you recommend?
Im thinking of installing the amp externally to the box (ie make another enclosure outside the driver enclosure) If I make sure the entry points of the wires are sealed, will this be OK?
SUMMARY SO FAR
Ive built a 60 litre box (before stuffing) so I expect the Q to be under 0.707 when its complete.
Sub will be downfiring
COST
Driver $313.75 (Shiva 12inch)
Amp $289 (from Jaycar, 150watts @ 4ohms)
Box materials - half dozen of beer (thanks matt! )
Stuffing - free (thanks larry!)
Misc - glues, screws etc - approx $10
Stainless steel sheet - free (is there a pattern here?)
All costs in aussie dollars.
TOTAL?
Well i guess if you want to be technical ive failed the challenge, but hopefully the few extra bucks will be worth it. After reading all the reviews, I CANT WAIT!
I will let you know how it all goes (hopefully with pics)
OK, Im half way there. Ive got the external box built, the amp is here, and the driver is coming tomorrow. Now i gotta make the bracings, complete the box, seal it all up, stuff it to buggery, then install the amp and driver, hook it all up and away I go.
Now for the questions:
Ive read that you have to "break in" the sub. IS this true? what do you recommend?
Im thinking of installing the amp externally to the box (ie make another enclosure outside the driver enclosure) If I make sure the entry points of the wires are sealed, will this be OK?
SUMMARY SO FAR
Ive built a 60 litre box (before stuffing) so I expect the Q to be under 0.707 when its complete.
Sub will be downfiring
COST
Driver $313.75 (Shiva 12inch)
Amp $289 (from Jaycar, 150watts @ 4ohms)
Box materials - half dozen of beer (thanks matt!
)Stuffing - free (thanks larry!)
Misc - glues, screws etc - approx $10
Stainless steel sheet - free (is there a pattern here?)
All costs in aussie dollars.
TOTAL?
Well i guess if you want to be technical ive failed the challenge, but hopefully the few extra bucks will be worth it. After reading all the reviews, I CANT WAIT!
I will let you know how it all goes (hopefully with pics)
hope the cabinet is nice and solid !!
the 50L sub I built required 2 people to move it, (or a trolley) 4cm thick all round except the amp partition.
separating the amp cabinet or compartment from the woofer is a very good idea ! I would never consider doing otherwise. The one I built had a 25mm thick partition between the woofer and the amp.
breaking in? that will just happen. You may or may not notice that it sounds a bit better after you have had it running for several hours and everything is loosened up !!
the 50L sub I built required 2 people to move it, (or a trolley) 4cm thick all round except the amp partition.
separating the amp cabinet or compartment from the woofer is a very good idea ! I would never consider doing otherwise. The one I built had a 25mm thick partition between the woofer and the amp.
breaking in? that will just happen. You may or may not notice that it sounds a bit better after you have had it running for several hours and everything is loosened up !!
Howabout the Peerless XLS 10 or 12" which around Aud$280 I think and fits into 50L box with about 25hz extension. Combine with a 60-80w @ 4ohm Jaycar sub module at around $210. Can go bigger sub amp 150w at around $300. The 60w amp is about 90% as good IMO.
Although, commercially the Sony SAWM40 12" for normal retail of $499 or some places $429 is very hard to beat and no work or sore thumbs. I use a Vifa M26 10" in 65L box with Jaycar 60W amp, its more musical than the Sony but not as big sounding.
Peerless would be in the couple 1000$ or more commercial league.
Although, commercially the Sony SAWM40 12" for normal retail of $499 or some places $429 is very hard to beat and no work or sore thumbs. I use a Vifa M26 10" in 65L box with Jaycar 60W amp, its more musical than the Sony but not as big sounding.
Peerless would be in the couple 1000$ or more commercial league.
MCM Drivers
Has anyone ever tried some of these MCM Drivers? They are quite inexpensive (but then they might be cheap as well).
Has anyone ever tried some of these MCM Drivers? They are quite inexpensive (but then they might be cheap as well).
Yeah i checked out the peerless driver. Its specs are very good, probably better than the shiva. I did some further research and many people said you need a decent size amp to drive the peerless (like over 500 watts)
This made me go back to the shiva, which some people say works great with a 40watt amp!
Mines almost finished, just a couple days to go..........
This made me go back to the shiva, which some people say works great with a 40watt amp!
Mines almost finished, just a couple days to go..........
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