looking at the diy sub scene there seems to be alot of large woofers put into large ported cabinets. great fantastic for home theater but what about a real hifi system.
In a hifi you need a sub that intergrates well with the mains and under pins them with tunefull bass and should not make itself heard.
not many acoustic instruments produces bass under 30hz.
in the UK REL are well known for good hifi subs
there are many drivers out there suitible for large ported boxes but what about a driver for pure music???
In a hifi you need a sub that intergrates well with the mains and under pins them with tunefull bass and should not make itself heard.
not many acoustic instruments produces bass under 30hz.
in the UK REL are well known for good hifi subs
there are many drivers out there suitible for large ported boxes but what about a driver for pure music???
It's true that a large part of sub DIY, if not the majority, is geared towards HT.
But if you are willing to search, there are threads on this forum about things a musicphile would be interested in: lowest distortion drivers, alignments with lowest group delay (e.g. sealed), soundstage and imaging (e.g. stereo subs), LP crossover type, etc.
In terms of what DIY driver got rave reviews, for a long time the NHT1259 in a sealed alignment was a sure fire bet. There are a few JBL fans on the forum too.
But if you are willing to search, there are threads on this forum about things a musicphile would be interested in: lowest distortion drivers, alignments with lowest group delay (e.g. sealed), soundstage and imaging (e.g. stereo subs), LP crossover type, etc.
In terms of what DIY driver got rave reviews, for a long time the NHT1259 in a sealed alignment was a sure fire bet. There are a few JBL fans on the forum too.
I recently completed building a pair of sealed subs using Oaudio's TC2+ 15" svc's. While i needed the pair to achieve HT levels of bass, i am VERY impressed with how well they deal with music (about 25% of my listening is music based). Prior to building these subs i did a great deal of research and many people pointed me in the TC2+ direction. It's very articulate and notably free from distortion even when driven hard.
Scott
Scott
philly, (this is becoming my standard reply).
You want an active crossover between your pre and power amp if that is possible( ie pre-outs and power in on an integrated). Cross anywhere from 100 to 250Hz.
Then stereo sealed subs with their own power amps (in the cabinet or in a case). Linkwitz transform to get real low.
Maybe design your subs so that the bookshelves look good sitting on top of them.
You want an active crossover between your pre and power amp if that is possible( ie pre-outs and power in on an integrated). Cross anywhere from 100 to 250Hz.
Then stereo sealed subs with their own power amps (in the cabinet or in a case). Linkwitz transform to get real low.
Maybe design your subs so that the bookshelves look good sitting on top of them.
phillfyspoon said:
considering cost, ease of construction, etc.. I think it likely that it would be difficult to better these (in a sealed enclosure):
http://www.rythmikaudio.com/servo_product.htm
sonically a good sub for music will provide:
1. a better sonic "balance" (between high freq.s and low freq.s)
2. give you "hall sound" (esentially the dimensions of the recording space - real or "virtual")
3. better "slam" (tactile sensation)
4. possibly better performance for your speakers with a high pass filter
5. possibly better freq. performance if you utilize a high pass filter AND a digital eq. (i.e. run the subwoofer higher in freq. and "cut-off" the speakers higher up - say circa 80 Hz) See Velodyne's eq.:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/john.mulcahy/roomeq/index.html
(with the appropriate behringer product), or this:
http://www.velodyne.com/velodyne/products/product.aspx?ID=15&sid=626g116u
If designed right, large and ported wil allow for a very low tune and almost no port noise. This makes transient response from ~30hz and up nearly identical to a sealed design. Below 30hz, one gets the free output of the port for HT use, and though group delay may begin to rise much higher than a sealed design in these lower frequencies, it doesn't really matter, as it has been shown that high group delay in low frequencies is undetectable and as you stated, not much bass below 30hz in most music anyway.
Another benefit is that the large enclsoure equates to more sensitivity, and the output created by the port means there is less excursion needed from the driver to achieve the same spl levels as a sealed design. Because of these lower demands, there is less power handling = less thernal compression. In my case, I picked an amp with just enough power to try and limit my excursion to no more than about 70% of xmax, as staying below this limit when using xbl^2 technology is said to make intermodulation distortion basically nonexistant.
So if designed right, a large ported enclosure can be just as musical if not more so than a sealed enclosure, and it can provide greater output with less distortion in the lower frequencies. Typically though, most ported enclsoures aren't large enough to take advantage of all or some of these characteristics, and the benefits of a smaller sealed design will usually outweigh those of a smaller ported design. It all comes down to design and implementation.
Another benefit is that the large enclsoure equates to more sensitivity, and the output created by the port means there is less excursion needed from the driver to achieve the same spl levels as a sealed design. Because of these lower demands, there is less power handling = less thernal compression. In my case, I picked an amp with just enough power to try and limit my excursion to no more than about 70% of xmax, as staying below this limit when using xbl^2 technology is said to make intermodulation distortion basically nonexistant.
So if designed right, a large ported enclosure can be just as musical if not more so than a sealed enclosure, and it can provide greater output with less distortion in the lower frequencies. Typically though, most ported enclsoures aren't large enough to take advantage of all or some of these characteristics, and the benefits of a smaller sealed design will usually outweigh those of a smaller ported design. It all comes down to design and implementation.
jimbo1968 said:
I didn't bother calibrating the input, it's just a quick set of measurements for comparitive results.
The room is about 25' x 14'. It's a bit of an odd shape which I guess helps the in room response ? Most of the walls are at 45 degrees to the floor from 5 feet from the floor.
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sort of thing...
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P.S. EG is a typo - I meant to type EQ. I have been typing EG a lot at work...
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