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Old 24th January 2006, 02:33 PM   #1
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Default questions about the Tumult...

Where is Mr. Dan Wiggins when you need him? And by the way, he is one smart s.o.b.

He pretty much laid to rest the myth of woofer speed/transient response vs. woofer size. After reading his technical paper and the "think-tank" battle on car sound & performance forums, i think i'm sold on his Tumult 15d2 driver. A sealed and L/T'd 1200 watt low Q enclosure.

However, there is no place i can go to demo any of the high end sealed subs in the $2K+ range so i guess it all comes down to the various online forums.

I would like to hear from "anyone" who has experienced the sound of the sealed 15" big-boys...ACI maestro, Revel b15, Kleiss s15a, Velodyne, Paradigm, etc.

Anything subjective or objective, listening impressions, performance data...anything!

Finally, a few more questions i'm pondering:



1. The musical differences in a critically damped sub (Q=.5) versus a bessel alignment (Q=.577)

2. The recommended f3 point for a sealed enclosure with a Linkwitz transform as it relates to room
gain in a THX-select environment (1,800 cu. ft.). This room can be fully sealed.

3. The viability of a servo-circuit unit integrated into the sub.

4. The comparative levels of performance between the Tumult and those units mentioned above.



My biggest fear is that this unit will overpower the room, hence the low Q alignment. But how low is the question. I would absolutely prefer a musical signature to this subwoofer, letting sheer displacement take care of HT. I have (3) 8" inch drivers moving the room currently so i don't fully know what to expect from this high end 15" driver. I do know that it models extremely well in winisd pro and Dan has made a very strong case for the XBL^2 topology, not to mention his "observations" on low inductance and transient response, which has put my mind at ease concerning the woofer speed myth.

This guy has really accelerated my learning curve of loudspeakers.

Now if we can just get the drivers released... Thanks to all.
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Old 26th January 2006, 11:01 PM   #2
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I'll say the new ones are overpriced if you compare to the previous version which sold for $100 less(for a 15d2).

They're pretty clean and go very deep even in a sealed box as you mention.

Problems.... you can bottom it out

My opinion on adire though, you can get a better value and quality product elsewhere
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Old 27th January 2006, 06:02 PM   #3
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hello and thanks for posting. Did you have to pay shipping on your tumult when you bought it?

There is better value if you're looking for a ported or PR sub. Even the Brahma 15" is a good option but i have'nt seen a more balanced extreme performance driver than the Tumult. If there is one, then it's too late now, this beast is on it's way to my house.

The one word that i keep hearing associated with this driver is low-distortion. This is "the" driver for a sealed L/T application and is the biggest performance upgrade i could hope for in a sealed DIY for $1400. The rocket ufw-12 is $1100-1300.00 shipped and the powerhouses from Revel, ACI, and Kleiss are all over $2200.

I only have 1800 cu. ft. to fill and i worry more about overpowering the room than bottoming the driver. However, you are correct, overexcursion is definitely a worry. I'll probably high pass at 20 Hz (2nd order), LT to 25 Hz and hope for the best. It's the best option for sealed that i have.

Thanks very much for your input.
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Old 27th January 2006, 09:59 PM   #4
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I dont believe I paid any shipping... I know acoustic-visions has always offered free shipping on adire drivers anyways.

A little late to be asking opinions if you already bought it?

Just dont tell me you're buying an ada1200 to go with it. It's a fancy peice of junk.

I wouldnt exactly say it's your best option for a sealed box, but I'd say it's probably the best option for a small sealed box.
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Old 27th January 2006, 10:27 PM   #5
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Nice competitor to the Tumult now...

http://www.acoustic-visions.com/~aco...rivers/SSRL-s/

RL-s15 is interesting for LT, 38.5mm Xmax, 1kW power handling and small Vas.
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Old 27th January 2006, 10:31 PM   #6
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Quote:
Nice competitor to the Tumult now...
82db efficiency, ouch!

I like the 38mm xmax

but on the other hand... who needs 86db efficiency if you're going to run out of xmax before 1000watts anyway
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Old 27th January 2006, 10:33 PM   #7
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Well, more 83 dB heh but yeah still low.

I'm sure on the other hand by simulating an LT, it will play louder than a Tumult anyway for low bass.

I'll simulate it to check for fun.
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Old 30th January 2006, 03:24 AM   #8
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power compression vs. excursion limitation...however, i'll take the +3 dB above 30 Hz in a sealed box that i would'nt HAVE to Linkwitz in order stamp the humpy FR.
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Old 30th January 2006, 03:23 PM   #9
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Wow...lots to comment on in this thread.

First, there is no reason to design a sealed sub that 'will bottom' when using the L/T.

Longer linear throw than a Tumult?

The SS sub mentioned is useless in anything but an IB situation, IMO. It certainly won't outperform a Tumult in a sealed, L/T design with 1200 watts...down low or otherwise.

The ADA1200 'a fancy piece of junk'? Compared to...?

Just wondering, 'exactly' what other drivers offer a better value for a sealed L/T app (for those of us to whom it is not obvious).

A system Q difference of .5 to .577 is very, very hard to discern in the typical 1800 cubes room, IMO. Given that, I would opt for the lower Q every time, as the real world sub you build will never exhibit the precise Q you predict.

In a room that small, I would consider a L/T bypass switch to be able to compare the natural curve of the sub with the L/T'd curve, in-room. I would personally use 9 dB of L/T boost with a 1200 watt amp, and disregard the room size, as that will likely change over the years.

Just ramblings, but having used some 38 drivers from around the world as well as 2X15" Brahma and currently using 2-2X15" Tumults, I have to say that the Tumult is the reigning King in this app.

Bosso
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Old 30th January 2006, 04:32 PM   #10
simon5 is offline simon5  Canada
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Bosso, the SS sub will beat a Tumult in a sealed LT box if you give it enough room to breathe. At 6 cu.ft or more it's beating a Tumult with 1200W available because the Tumult ran out of excursion already. (fp = 20 Hz, Qp = 0.707) If you have even more power available, then you could go smaller.

For sure, usually you design an LT to be very small so the Tumult got an advantage with his low Qts, low Fs and higher efficiency.
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