Trying to decide what driver to choose for my DIY HT/Music project and need a little advice 
.....
I have been modeling the Peerless XXLS series subs in UniBox as well as the AE Speakers AV Series subs and have a dilema. Priorities are as follows:
1) Sealed Box
2) Sound Quality
3) Reasonable Size
4) SPL Output
I would really like to go with a 10" sub because I do 80% listening to music (which I know rules out the AE AV Series bc of no 10" to my knowledge) but when I model the XXLS 12" to the AE Speakers AV12 (to compare apples to apples) the F3 comes out to be very close and the box sizes are both fairly acceptable. But the difference comes into play with the freq @ Xmax.
The AE speakers is much lower @18.2 Hz where as the XXLS (due to its low xmax) is @43.7 Hz
Would I be dissapointed in going with a 10" Peerless XXLS in a small sealed box becuase of the limited Xmax factor? I know that in a sealed box things are better as far as Xmax is concerned, but I wanted to make sure.
I could always go with a Dayton Titanic MKIII 10" - but my friend already built one and this way we can compare
Thanks for your kind advice in advance!
.....I have been modeling the Peerless XXLS series subs in UniBox as well as the AE Speakers AV Series subs and have a dilema. Priorities are as follows:
1) Sealed Box
2) Sound Quality
3) Reasonable Size
4) SPL Output
I would really like to go with a 10" sub because I do 80% listening to music (which I know rules out the AE AV Series bc of no 10" to my knowledge) but when I model the XXLS 12" to the AE Speakers AV12 (to compare apples to apples) the F3 comes out to be very close and the box sizes are both fairly acceptable. But the difference comes into play with the freq @ Xmax.
The AE speakers is much lower @18.2 Hz where as the XXLS (due to its low xmax) is @43.7 Hz
Would I be dissapointed in going with a 10" Peerless XXLS in a small sealed box becuase of the limited Xmax factor? I know that in a sealed box things are better as far as Xmax is concerned, but I wanted to make sure.
I could always go with a Dayton Titanic MKIII 10" - but my friend already built one and this way we can compare
Thanks for your kind advice in advance!
Titanic line isn't the best line for SQ.
New Dayton line is better.
On the other hand, Peerless XXLS and Acoustic Elegance AV subwoofers are both high SQ. I would choose the AV12 because I think it's superior to the XXLS.
Where do you want to crossover? If you crossover low, you could use a 15 inches driver if you want to and it won't make any difference in music.
New Dayton line is better.
On the other hand, Peerless XXLS and Acoustic Elegance AV subwoofers are both high SQ. I would choose the AV12 because I think it's superior to the XXLS.
Where do you want to crossover? If you crossover low, you could use a 15 inches driver if you want to and it won't make any difference in music.
Simon5,
Thanks for your response. I guess the Dayton is out, but I really wasnt headed in that direction anyhow.
I am trying to decide between going with a 10" XXLS (perferred) or a 12" XXLS or a 12" AE AV12. I def dont want to go beyond a 12" sub as I am just mostly going to use this with stereo music, so the 15" is out of the question. Also trying to stay definitely under the $200 mark for the driver.
Any ideas on the Xmax question?? I can post the plots later tonight....
Thanks
Logonwheeler
Thanks for your response. I guess the Dayton is out, but I really wasnt headed in that direction anyhow.
I am trying to decide between going with a 10" XXLS (perferred) or a 12" XXLS or a 12" AE AV12. I def dont want to go beyond a 12" sub as I am just mostly going to use this with stereo music, so the 15" is out of the question. Also trying to stay definitely under the $200 mark for the driver.
Any ideas on the Xmax question?? I can post the plots later tonight....
Thanks
Logonwheeler
Simon, have you actually done an AB comparison with an AV series vs XLS sub?
The AV12 has 6db more output potential at 20 Hz than the XLS due to nearly double the xmax. In a sealed box you should get about that much, so a single sealed AV12 matches two XLS subs for output at 20 Hz. In a vented box you won't use all the xmax of the AV12 so there is less advantage.
No one can say how much is enough for you. You will have to try things out or listen to something as a reference point. You will also have to consider what particular deal you can find. XLS is cheap in Australia, but other drivers are cheaper relative to it in the US.
The AV12 has 6db more output potential at 20 Hz than the XLS due to nearly double the xmax. In a sealed box you should get about that much, so a single sealed AV12 matches two XLS subs for output at 20 Hz. In a vented box you won't use all the xmax of the AV12 so there is less advantage.
No one can say how much is enough for you. You will have to try things out or listen to something as a reference point. You will also have to consider what particular deal you can find. XLS is cheap in Australia, but other drivers are cheaper relative to it in the US.
paulspencer no I didn't make an AB comparison, that's why I said I think.
logonwheeler I don't know if there's any left, but the AVs 15" are 180$...
For the Xmax, well it will depend on your amplifier and your listening habits... As paulspencer said, the AV got double the Xmax so you can use more power. If you don't like to play music at high volumes, then that extra Xmax is not needed much.
logonwheeler I don't know if there's any left, but the AVs 15" are 180$...
For the Xmax, well it will depend on your amplifier and your listening habits... As paulspencer said, the AV got double the Xmax so you can use more power. If you don't like to play music at high volumes, then that extra Xmax is not needed much.
Forgot to post this, you can add that to your comparison...
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=295-460
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=295-460
Actually I think a Rythmik audio direct servo kit would beat them all. I haven't had the chance to hear one, but I'd expect it to be noticeably more articulate and it has one clear advantage over most plate amps - the eq is just right! Most of them have a terrible response which often includes bass boost which has to be disabled. This is the best thought out plate amp I have seen. Otherwise it sounds like you are headed towards a smaller than optimal box which would require a LT at extra cost.
Simon, I've heard both XLS and AV12 (I have it) and I think the XLS probably has an edge in SQ, however this is not from my subjective impressions since I haven't really had a proper setup to really be able to compare ... it's more related to my experience with the AV12 where I find it has a limited useable top end, whereas the XLS is used in high end speakers running up as high as 120 Hz without problems. I wouldn't do that with the AV12 ... not for music.
Make no mistake - the AV12 is a leader in the displacement/$ stakes, but where SQ is more of a priority, I'd say drivers such as the Rythmik, XLS, TC2+, Dayton Reference series would be better.
Simon, I've heard both XLS and AV12 (I have it) and I think the XLS probably has an edge in SQ, however this is not from my subjective impressions since I haven't really had a proper setup to really be able to compare ... it's more related to my experience with the AV12 where I find it has a limited useable top end, whereas the XLS is used in high end speakers running up as high as 120 Hz without problems. I wouldn't do that with the AV12 ... not for music.
Make no mistake - the AV12 is a leader in the displacement/$ stakes, but where SQ is more of a priority, I'd say drivers such as the Rythmik, XLS, TC2+, Dayton Reference series would be better.
Just wanted to make 1 highlight..... I am considering the XXLS not the XLS. The XLS is mostly for vented applications whereas the XXLS is made for sealed boxes (depending on which model you choose in the XXLS range). I hope that your opinions were in reference to the XXLS not the XLS - just wanted to point that out.
The servo kit is intresting - however I already have a plate amp made by M&K that has lots of headroom, so the servo idea is out of the question. I am not looking for the "smallest" box size here... only trying to be reasonable without getting too large of a box/driver. That is where the AV12 really shines. It can really get into a very small enclosure with good low end response.
You have me looking at the upper freq of the AV12 now. if it isnt as good at 120 Hz, I will have to look at that. If I cross it over via the plate amp, that means it will be adjustable and I can measure my in room response and determine where I should cross it over. Maybe I only need up to 100 Hz and it wouldnt really be an issue.
Thanks for more feedback.
The servo kit is intresting - however I already have a plate amp made by M&K that has lots of headroom, so the servo idea is out of the question. I am not looking for the "smallest" box size here... only trying to be reasonable without getting too large of a box/driver. That is where the AV12 really shines. It can really get into a very small enclosure with good low end response.
You have me looking at the upper freq of the AV12 now. if it isnt as good at 120 Hz, I will have to look at that. If I cross it over via the plate amp, that means it will be adjustable and I can measure my in room response and determine where I should cross it over. Maybe I only need up to 100 Hz and it wouldnt really be an issue.
Thanks for more feedback.
I agree with Paul Spencer....
I also have never heard the Rythmik. Even so I would recommend the Rythmik. Why I would do that is because I had a Genesis sub which was servoed. Servo subs can usually and easily beat the sound quality of any box sub you can put together. If you go this route, then sell the other plate amp that you have (or maybe you can use it with the Rythmic???)
The other option you should consider is an infinite baffle sub. With an IB sub, you could still use your plate amp.
Retsel
I also have never heard the Rythmik. Even so I would recommend the Rythmik. Why I would do that is because I had a Genesis sub which was servoed. Servo subs can usually and easily beat the sound quality of any box sub you can put together. If you go this route, then sell the other plate amp that you have (or maybe you can use it with the Rythmic???)
The other option you should consider is an infinite baffle sub. With an IB sub, you could still use your plate amp.
Retsel
My comments were referring to XLS but the XXLS is similar, just different parameters, and regardless of params, they can be made to work for either sealed or vented.
With a plate amp you must know what the filters are doing, as they can prevent you from getting your target response. You need to know their exact filter frequency response.
I've heard others make similar comments about the top end of the Tempest as well. When I crossed with a 4LR @ 80 Hz I wasn't happy with the bass - 40 - 60 Hz is more like it.
With a plate amp you must know what the filters are doing, as they can prevent you from getting your target response. You need to know their exact filter frequency response.
I've heard others make similar comments about the top end of the Tempest as well. When I crossed with a 4LR @ 80 Hz I wasn't happy with the bass - 40 - 60 Hz is more like it.
The AV series parts are much beefier drivers than the Dayton RS drivers, with more Xmax and more Xmech. In fact, the AV woofers are designed to reach the limits of their soft parts before they can ever "bottom out", well beyond Xmax. They want a good deal of power, it seems. If you can't give them at least their rated 500W, you'll miss out on much of their potential. But power is cheap these days, and a suitable plate amplifier can be had for less than $300.
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