My search for the ultimate in subwoofers has led me to three company's
Peerless
Eminence
Dayton Loudspeaker.
I have spent thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours trying to find the perfect way to outsmart companies like electrovoice, jbl and so on.
I run a car audio store, i've done ALOT of installs, modeled and build ALOT of boxes, with ALOT of different subs and amps.
I am trying to tap into the pro sound market in my area. and i want the help of the experts here at diy audio.
Heres a list of my litle collection of subs.
(2) Lab 12's
(1) peerless XXLSP
(1) peerless XXLSS ( i ordered a PR to play with for theese too)
(1) dayton DVC 12
(1) dayton DVC 15
(1) dayton Titanic 10 AND 12
(2) dayton series II 15's
(1) dayton quatro 12
(1) dayton quatro 15
(1) dayton reference 12HO
(1) dayton reference 12HF
I have had alot of success, i've build a box for every one of theese subs (except the DVC15) and tested them.
i have full wholesale pricing on dayton peerless eminence and every other name you can think of.
I dont care what sub we use, how many, or how much they are, i dont even care if i have them yet, My proposal is lets make a BULLETPROOF design, tunning strictly for music, that will eat the **** out of anything out there on the pro sound market.
IM ALL EARS.
Linkletter
Peerless
Eminence
Dayton Loudspeaker.
I have spent thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours trying to find the perfect way to outsmart companies like electrovoice, jbl and so on.
I run a car audio store, i've done ALOT of installs, modeled and build ALOT of boxes, with ALOT of different subs and amps.
I am trying to tap into the pro sound market in my area. and i want the help of the experts here at diy audio.
Heres a list of my litle collection of subs.
(2) Lab 12's
(1) peerless XXLSP
(1) peerless XXLSS ( i ordered a PR to play with for theese too)
(1) dayton DVC 12
(1) dayton DVC 15
(1) dayton Titanic 10 AND 12
(2) dayton series II 15's
(1) dayton quatro 12
(1) dayton quatro 15
(1) dayton reference 12HO
(1) dayton reference 12HF
I have had alot of success, i've build a box for every one of theese subs (except the DVC15) and tested them.
i have full wholesale pricing on dayton peerless eminence and every other name you can think of.
I dont care what sub we use, how many, or how much they are, i dont even care if i have them yet, My proposal is lets make a BULLETPROOF design, tunning strictly for music, that will eat the **** out of anything out there on the pro sound market.
IM ALL EARS.
Linkletter
I like the cut of your gib, young Sir!
What you have to determine is exactly what you would describe as being able to fit the bill - horses for courses. Are we talking compact? are we talking extention? are we taliking a price-point or a compromise between all of the above?
I think ultimately, even in a cost-no-object cruisade, you're gonna hit a brick wall somewhere along the way. No cabinet resonances? - Go Dipole; problem is going to be the amount of Watts/Drivers employed. How big can you go? what is the highest frequency likely to be employed? - if we're talking sub 30Hz area we're not likely to be worried about the sonic vitues of a 2000W amp; if your going all the way up to 100Hz, perhapse we could do a multistage unit? different amps/drivers?
Cheers - Jezz
What you have to determine is exactly what you would describe as being able to fit the bill - horses for courses. Are we talking compact? are we talking extention? are we taliking a price-point or a compromise between all of the above?
I think ultimately, even in a cost-no-object cruisade, you're gonna hit a brick wall somewhere along the way. No cabinet resonances? - Go Dipole; problem is going to be the amount of Watts/Drivers employed. How big can you go? what is the highest frequency likely to be employed? - if we're talking sub 30Hz area we're not likely to be worried about the sonic vitues of a 2000W amp; if your going all the way up to 100Hz, perhapse we could do a multistage unit? different amps/drivers?
Cheers - Jezz
haha. alright
size, is a factor, but not a crucial factor.
price point - CRUCIAL, the most important factor. because all i'll have goin for me with no name is a good price and a good product.
Extension - well, most dj's use 45hz high pass for doing dances. so thats not reall a factor. im talking strictly a music sub, that can GOB out the bass into that dance floor.
basically folks, its gotta be a miracle product. when i say miracle product. it has to do WAY more then expected, for MUCH less money then it has to right to.
Some things that i've been considering
1. extension to 35-40 is plenty.
2. i've thought about bandpass, but have ZERO experience with those kind of boxes.
BUT most of all. it has to be alot better then whats out there, and at alot better price.
just a thought, multiple 10's? might do the trick.
Linkletter.
size, is a factor, but not a crucial factor.
price point - CRUCIAL, the most important factor. because all i'll have goin for me with no name is a good price and a good product.
Extension - well, most dj's use 45hz high pass for doing dances. so thats not reall a factor. im talking strictly a music sub, that can GOB out the bass into that dance floor.
basically folks, its gotta be a miracle product. when i say miracle product. it has to do WAY more then expected, for MUCH less money then it has to right to.
Some things that i've been considering
1. extension to 35-40 is plenty.
2. i've thought about bandpass, but have ZERO experience with those kind of boxes.
BUT most of all. it has to be alot better then whats out there, and at alot better price.
just a thought, multiple 10's? might do the trick.
Linkletter.
Given my limited exposure to the dance scene (ahem), I wouldn't think your task is unachievable. Work to a price - not a silly price; but perhapse the most you'd expect to pay for about the best in the bizz; I'm assuming you're not thinking of taking on the world - just yet
incidentally - what price-point were you aiming for?Then consider how you want to format the product; you can get a lot more "added value" out of an active design (from your perspective) than you can a passive - you've also some degree of assurance that the unit will be employed correctly.
What sort of SPL's do you want to hit?
-Jezz
I will assume that the subs need to be suitable to 100 hz
this seems to be the prefered point of most dj's
tell me more about your dipole idea, im not even sure what a dipole sub is.
open back perhaps? what advatages do we get there,
multistage i think would be overkill. unless someone with more experience then me believes that the sound of a multistage unit will have a great impression on dj's that never use this type of equipment and are used to playing 100HZ with an 18 inch pro sound driver.
this seems to be the prefered point of most dj's
tell me more about your dipole idea, im not even sure what a dipole sub is.
open back perhaps? what advatages do we get there,
multistage i think would be overkill. unless someone with more experience then me believes that the sound of a multistage unit will have a great impression on dj's that never use this type of equipment and are used to playing 100HZ with an 18 inch pro sound driver.
Fair enough.
My goal for spl. LOUD AS POSSIBLE, no holds barred.
now spl is so controverstial with bass. because the environment determines it.
Good rule of thumb, it has to hit harder then everything thats not horn loaded, if not harder, VERY CLOSE TO.
im looking at below 400 dollars cost pushing 500 if the extra money is worth it.
haha, at least we're on the same level now.
Does anyone think it possible to make a product at local level that would be more appealing then the pro sound stuff out there.
Heres a few reasons i think i can do it
1. I have no overhead
2. I have real generous wholesale pricing.
3. I can build it considerably cheaper then what they're charging at retail stores.
This thread is difficult to understand...
What are we trying to do here exactly. Sounds like a "mega-value" system is the goal.
I'd go with a few 18" drivers in horn loaded enclosures. Go as large with the enclosures as is required for the lowest frequency you need to play(without significant attenuation)
*Edit* Posts seemed to have appeared as I was typing mine...
I guess horn enclosures are out? I guess 18" speakers are out?
What are we trying to do here exactly. Sounds like a "mega-value" system is the goal.
I'd go with a few 18" drivers in horn loaded enclosures. Go as large with the enclosures as is required for the lowest frequency you need to play(without significant attenuation)
*Edit* Posts seemed to have appeared as I was typing mine...
I guess horn enclosures are out? I guess 18" speakers are out?
You have to have a close look at your competition in this arena to fully appreciate where you can capitalise; in most cases (and I would stress not all) so-so drivers are screwed into a predetermined enclosure by someone who is guessing at what they are doing. Little attention is given to materials and bracing, and many rather crude mistakes can be unwittingly made. With a little forethought and care, the same designes can be replicated to a far higher standard with staggaring results.
I was looking at 18" pro sound drivers in the partsexpress catalog and A few seemed to be of decent value. There was a B&C sub, Peavy's lowriders, and perhaps something from dayton. They all claimed something like 97+db one watt efficiency! I dont think that is entirely true... I just wonder how far off it is!
I wonder what we could come up with for the dayton 18's. i get wholesale pricing on those.
i doubt they're 97 across the board. but at some frequencies they would achieve higher then that.
the peavey low riders probably are garbage, but they're made by eminence so who knows.
B&C are way to expencive.
I'll give you an idea at where the TOP of the industry in my area is at.
The guy i get all my low-down information on the pro sound market told me he was considering used dual 18 empty peavey cab's for 900+ a piece. he was planning on just buying RCF subs and putting them in the peavey cabinet. Another example is i went to a DJ/MUSIC store in a nearby town, and they tried to sell me a B&C 18 for 450 bucks. i dont know what the specs we're but i can assume the driver wouldn't equivelate to the dayton 18.
OK. In this arena, you check the spec's of your drivers for their response between ~40-100Hz; take that as the efficiency, not the quoted figure. Example: doubling drivers will improve efficiency by 3dB; If you get 2 150W 12" Drivers @ 95dB ea for $100, or 1 300W 18" Driver @ 97dB for $200, you're winning with the 12"ers.
Design the cab properly for the driver(s) selected; build & brace like a tank & you'll get a unit that murders the competition on price and performance.
Design the cab properly for the driver(s) selected; build & brace like a tank & you'll get a unit that murders the competition on price and performance.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.