sub needed to go with hivi B3S

Status
This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.
hello friends

i am currently gathering the materials to build the hivi Bs3 project

http://www.zaphaudio.com/audio-speaker18.html

....i am looking for a sub to go along with it

i have heard good things and the tangband neo subs and have decided on the 6.5" sub

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=264-832

....and this plate amp

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=300-784


the problem comes in when trying to figure out how big to build the box...i am trying to use winisd but when i entered the parameters it says to build box at 2.9 liters which seems way too small for a sub box, even if its only 6 1/2"...so here are some ?'s i had getting started:

-for SPL do i use the value given for 1Watt/meter?
-for Pe (electric power) do i use nominal power? i.e. 50 watts RMS?
-for Re (driver DC resistance) do i use DCR impedence?
-since i cant seem to find a diameter, can i just use the equation area = pi * r^2 and use the value of effective piston area for the area in this equation?
-for Z do i use nominal impedence or do i use a value given as Zo (for this driver nom. impedence is 4 ohm and Zo is given as 31 ohm)
 
I have not yet played with WinISD but thought it was funny that I am planning a nearly exact same project. I started reading the forums about 2 weeks ago and have also decided to use the Hi-Vi plans from Zaph with the same components for the subwoofer. Good luck and keep us updated on your project I will do the same when I get around to it
 
I actually came up with the same plan using the smaller Dayton amplifier for a ported application. These where my box specs with a three inch length one inch diameter port
10.6 W
15.4 H
7.8 D
tuned to 34hz. The dimensions are designed to easily fit under a desk, and have three inches between the rear of the driver and the cabinet. A little bit of foam to line the box might be nice (not that there is much left to line). If you plug that into winISD/PRO it will have a -3db at 30hz which is fairly impressive, with an overall pretty flat curve.

(P.S. the subwoofer is 4 ohm, so it would get 70wRMS)
 
did you guys get those dimensions by plugging the parameters into winisd or did you just get the overall internal volume using winisd and came up with the dimensions yourselves?

i guess i am not quite sure which dimensions to use or how to figure out what size port to use and what not...somebody wanna help?
 
I started with winISD measurements and modified the port to fit into the box by re-sizing it, then I exchanged an inch on two measurements to give a full three inches between box and rear of driver.

I suppose a more box shaped design with a bigger and way longer port might be a little better, but it would also suck under a desk.
 
hey destroyer, i am having trouble figuring out how you are getting these dimensions...when i use winisd i get roughly .1 cubic feet sealed and roughly .2 cubic feet ported....both your dimensions and the link posted above to enclosure design plans for the tangband have internal volumes of over .4. am i missing something? was i supposed to take into account the volume of the plate amp and the port? how would i go about doing this?

also, using winisd, i calculated the box should be tuned to 49 Hz and using a different calculator i got 45 Hz...how did u get 34?

thx for the help
 
Hmm I think I had the wrong Tang Band!

Can I get the specs you put in or the file for it? I am having trouble getting mine to accept the specs I put in, it gives me errors.

I had the W6-1139SA not SG..... Hmm does any one sell the SA? it would appear to be vastly superior.
 
this is the link for the specs of the driver I am making reference to

http://www.partsexpress.com/pdf/264-832.pdf

what is the link for the driver you are talking about?

and here is the link for the other project whose values are very similar to the ones you got

http://www.pesupport.com/cgi-bin/config.pl?read=249677

i dont think you got the wrong driver cuz your enclosure calculations slightly resemble the ones on the parts express support page....by that, i mean you got relatively close internal volume and box tuning numbers...

please help me with the confusion :)
 
I found it on WinISD Alpha.

Here is my new canidate.....

W5-1138SA
15 L .54 FT squared.
35 HZ

25 L .88 FT squared.
33 HZ

(I need to re-install the imperial version of winISD alpha so I can figure out the stupid port length easier, and the diminsions, I can never picture cm's)

That project gets no where near 30 HZ.

If I where to pick out 8 ohm drivers this would be easy. I however am trying to keep this project under a hundred dollars, fit under a desk, and hit down to 30hz. That TB is capable.

If any one wants me to look for 8 ohm ones, name a price for it an amplifier.
 
ok so these numbers are for the 5 1/4" instead of the 6 1/2...

i am still confused as to how you obtained these numbers?

for example:
15 L .54 FT squared.
35 HZ

25 L .88 FT squared.
33 HZ

what does this mean? 15 liters could be internal box volume but what is .54 ft squared? shouldnt it be cubed if its volume?

why tuned to 35 and 33? why are there two different volumes? is one sealed and one ported?

can u show me what the numbers would be for the 6.5 inch neo sub? (link above)
 
ALSO i think i may have finally figured out how those plans from pesupport.com make sense...

i calculated internal volume for THAT box and got roughly .4 cubic feet...my calculated values show it should be more like .2

HOWEVER once i subtract the volume of the plate amp (.07 cubic feet) and the volume of the port (.13 cubic feet) i get the magic .2 cubic feet number....

NOW i just need to figure out why their ported box is tuned to 36 Hz when i calculated optimal tuning to be more like 45 Hz.

i used this online calculator (scroll down):

http://www.audiogrid.com/audio/

i entered values for Fs, Qts, and Vas and it told me enclosure tuning should be 44.78

why is the port tuning on the pesupport page different than my calculated?

thx for the help ppl :)
 
I apologize that is suppose to be cubic feet. I am a retard.

TANG BAND W5-1138SA is already in WinISD Alpha, just where the scroll thing is for drivers highlight, press T, then press down until you hit W5-1138SA.

I was just giving the cubic foot and L incase you where using imperial or metric install.

Just try to the cubic foot / liters I gave with the frequencies I gave. Then take a look at the -3db (purple line).

The 25 L box has a -3db at 28hz. There is a small spike right before that, but I consider that much more exceptable then having a dip toward the -3db mark. The 15 L box has a -3db at 30hz, which is nice for a tiny box.
 
you are not a retard...you seem very smart....so u can keep educating me

i am still confused tho...are you saying that winisd alpha just GIVES you the necessary volumes and freqencies? why does it give you two options (15 L and 25L) ? are there more than two options?

i still cant figure out also why the numbers i got using my calculator give different box volume calculations than winisd alpha gave you...shouldnt there be one specific size that lets the driver perform BEST? why do different programs give different numbers, and why did i get different tuning freqnencies also? am i just supposed to choose whatever tuning frequency i want?

what about the -3 dB...i understand what this means, but why is it a good thing? for example, you said having -3 dB at 30 Hz is nice for a tiny box...why is it nice?
 
WinISD help

Please do that boring thing called "reading the instructions." Soon light bulbs should be popping on inside your head. WinISD is a very powerful program, and quite easy to use.

PS If you don't want to wait try this: after selecting your driver and box (what you have described doing so far), click on the box tab. Left click and hold on the picture representing the box. Slowly move you mouse, watching the graph as you do.

good luck,
Duane B
 
Ok ok...

Basically winISD, which when you plug in driver parameters or choose one from their drop down menu, will give you a best fit box volume and tuning frequency for the most possible flat curve.

What winISD does not do is consider how much farther you can push tuning down while adjusting the box to get what you want, by sacrificing a little sound quality. The sacrifice in quality that does not even go near the -3db mark is fairly negligible in the very low frequencies; in this case less than 40 Hz. Within 1db SPL levels in the subwoofer’s territory you will never be in the situation to hear the difference. Now whether the subwoofer is musically talented or not, to be accurate on the actual Hz reproduction and ability to accurately change the Hz it is playing to the next, to make you believe you hear an instrument, is what you will find important.

-3db point is a reference mark, for a reason. The -3db mark marks where the driver/speaker is effectively half as loud, even though the human ear can not make that definition by ear, in volume. However after -3db it will become more readably apparent, and by 10db any one that can hear will be able to proclaim it is significantly quieter, and probably guess half as loud or about. Also the difference in sound, not volume, will change along with the difference in db. Basically the flatter the more musically talented a driver/speaker is and the more accurately it will reproduce the given Hz at a given volume. If you have your volume set at X amount, and you feed a signal that say should produce a 30db sound at 1 kHz, and then a 30db sound at 500 Hz you would want them to both be 30db….. If they are not both producing 30db then there is some thing wrong because by the media you are using that is what should be produced at X volume.

I have changed my tuning for 25 L to 32 Hz after a little more thinking. I was just thinking the spike might be a little exaggerated at 33 Hz and unnecessary when I can get an even lower -3db at right below 28 Hz. The increase in size of the box will probably allow some increased SPL levels, as well as a little lower extension, with the sacrifice of a small, not noticeable 1db variance. Now if this was a speaker playing the higher frequencies I would never choose any variance at all. I like my dynamics, imaging, etc, and plan to keep them as accurately as possible. With the subwoofer I do not care because those qualities are not really there. If I was supplied a lot of money I would go all out, and not be living in a dorm, on a perfect subwoofer cause I could, not because I would be hearing the difference in 1db; I would be hearing the difference in talent of producing quickly and accurately the frequency and its changes.

How do I choose my tuning? I plug numbers in and play around to see how low I can get the -3db in a box that of reasonable size for the application. Basically I will put in different frequencies and then adjust the box size to see if an acceptable graph will occur.

Consider a -3db range approaching the 20 Hz territory will mean you will get some, but not a lot, of 20 Hz territory extension. While a lot of music does not even creep below 35 Hz, some does, and I want to hear it! The 20 Hz territory is where some music will get to and just about nothing makes it below 20 Hz. The lower you go in the 20 Hz territory the faster the instruments will drop off in reproduction capability. Do consider the human ear often does not even hear things in the 20 Hz territory and certainly not below it, you can usually only feel it. I think a study I read showed no one hearing below 18 Hz, and many people not hearing below 28 Hz.

Hope that helps a little, an answer or two of explanation. Do remember SPL levels with small drivers are not great. I am not going for high SPL, most of my listening if very quiet. I just want to hear the kick bass drum, some lower notes of the bass guitar, and what ever other instruments venture into the massive wave territory. That and I live in a dorm room or a small room while not in college. If I really wanted to I could just build and Adire Tempest and **** people off, hurt my ears, and make my music sound very unbalanced, but I figure there is enough of those running around in their parent’s Civics. That and I like accurate music production, hence being an audiophile. Damn when am I going to shut up?
 
My only real concern with attempting to go into 20 Hz territory with a 5.25 subwoofer is having it bottom out. I can hi-pass it if I need too. Plus, again, pretty low volume listening levels, I do not "crank it".

If this crap box Logitech can hit 40hz, EQ'ed up and what not, I can hit 30hz!

http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/details/US/EN,CRID=2173,CONTENTID=9066

I am adventurous.

(Yeah they hit 40 Hz, I bought some for my room mate because his laptop speakers where about to make me sever his head.)
 
Status
This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.