Hi everyone,
I'm gonna be building a single or dual DIY sub this winter (Probably SEALED, but not ruled out a Ported version).....I want to compensate a little bit on the upper range (40-80hz) for music/etc with some tighter and faster response Bass.
I've narrowed down the Drivers to one of these (although suggestions are most welcome):
Styke AE12:
http://www.stryke.com/AVseries.html
Stryke HE12:
http://www.stryke.com/SATser.html
Adire Tumult 12":
http://www.acoustic-visions.com/~acoustic/products/subwoofer_drivers/adire_tumult_15/
I'm planning on making either a single of dual design, and will try to make a rosewood finish to match the Ultra.....couple of preliminary designs I had in mind to copy of some you folks
:
and a few other designs I'm trying to clone.
ps- my sig contains pics of my current setup
I'm gonna be building a single or dual DIY sub this winter (Probably SEALED, but not ruled out a Ported version).....I want to compensate a little bit on the upper range (40-80hz) for music/etc with some tighter and faster response Bass.
I've narrowed down the Drivers to one of these (although suggestions are most welcome):
Styke AE12:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
http://www.stryke.com/AVseries.html
Stryke HE12:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
http://www.stryke.com/SATser.html
Adire Tumult 12":
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
http://www.acoustic-visions.com/~acoustic/products/subwoofer_drivers/adire_tumult_15/
I'm planning on making either a single of dual design, and will try to make a rosewood finish to match the Ultra.....couple of preliminary designs I had in mind to copy of some you folks
:An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
and a few other designs I'm trying to clone.
ps- my sig contains pics of my current setup
The AV12 and AV15 are good woofers. AE Speakers is the name of the company, and AV is the name of the driver series. Right now, there are no AE Speakers HE woofers because an improved design is in the works. Stryke Audio was reorganized into two brands, Acoustic Elegance and AE Speakers, so that means that you couldn't order a "Stryke" HE12 even if you tried. Such a driver has never even been commercially available, but I think that John (proprietor of AE Speakers) has considered it for the new model line. The new AE Speakers HE series woofers are expected to have a woven carbon fiber cone with an aluminum thread woven in with the carbon fiber and the same clear-anodized inverted aluminum dust cap. No word yet on how long this will take.
I recommend a SonoSub with an AV15 driver. That's this one:
They can safely be used in a down-firing configuration. That's critical for building a SonoSub. The output from one of these bad boys in a big (8.8 cu.ft.) sonotube would lay waste to an SVS 16-46 PC-Plus. All you'd need to really pull one of these off would be a table saw and a router. You can use plexiglass to make a circle cutting jig for a router, which would give you very smooth round shapes for the sonotube endcaps.
I recommend a SonoSub with an AV15 driver. That's this one:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
They can safely be used in a down-firing configuration. That's critical for building a SonoSub. The output from one of these bad boys in a big (8.8 cu.ft.) sonotube would lay waste to an SVS 16-46 PC-Plus. All you'd need to really pull one of these off would be a table saw and a router. You can use plexiglass to make a circle cutting jig for a router, which would give you very smooth round shapes for the sonotube endcaps.
Looks like you want to go 12" with this...
Any reason why not a 15" box size asside?
In case you didnt know in general a 15" driver will:
Have much greated displacement with equal excursion
Have higher sensitivity with equal BL
Have less distortion at low bass(due to smaller excursion requirements mostly)
Require a larger box(the downside)
Any reason why not a 15" box size asside?
In case you didnt know in general a 15" driver will:
Have much greated displacement with equal excursion
Have higher sensitivity with equal BL
Have less distortion at low bass(due to smaller excursion requirements mostly)
Require a larger box(the downside)
Thank you BAM, for that info....much appreciated.
ok, so here are some follow-up questions:
1. Which would provide a better acoustic signature or sound, in a sealed box: An AV12 or an Adire Tumult 12" ? I will probably not go with a 15", and definitely not a Sonosub because of aestitic reasons! My wife has command over that, and she absolutely would pull her hair off if she sees a sonosub
2. I don't have a PC-plus, but rather a boxed PB12-ULTRA, which provides me with Plenty of SPL and extremely good sub 30hz (and subsonic, <20Hz) bass.......what I'm looking for is more of a Tight bass strictly for music to complement the SVS Ultra. What would be the best configuration to try? SEALED or VENTED?
I also want to match the finish of the SVS's Rosewood veneer, so I'm gonna try to stay away from too many fancy designs....
ok, so here are some follow-up questions:
1. Which would provide a better acoustic signature or sound, in a sealed box: An AV12 or an Adire Tumult 12" ? I will probably not go with a 15", and definitely not a Sonosub because of aestitic reasons! My wife has command over that, and she absolutely would pull her hair off if she sees a sonosub
2. I don't have a PC-plus, but rather a boxed PB12-ULTRA, which provides me with Plenty of SPL and extremely good sub 30hz (and subsonic, <20Hz) bass.......what I'm looking for is more of a Tight bass strictly for music to complement the SVS Ultra. What would be the best configuration to try? SEALED or VENTED?
I also want to match the finish of the SVS's Rosewood veneer, so I'm gonna try to stay away from too many fancy designs....
Here is a quick photoshop idea for my design:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
You want to use something in-between of your main speakers and your subwoofer? You could go with a high sensivity pro driver too. The AV12 or AV15 will be nice, but you could ask John to make you some Lambda woofers with Faraday rings, you won't have them for christmas on the other hand.
BTW, with the AV15, you could discard that SVS, that's why your setup is a bit special hehe!
BTW, with the AV15, you could discard that SVS, that's why your setup is a bit special hehe!
Snow Horn
Didn't Adrian Mack build a great big horn speaker in his back yard behind his deck out of lots of snow and a garden hose to ice it all up hard? Cool project put one next to the hot tub turn up the volume and you have a jacuzzi. Tried to find the picture no luck. Anybody got a copy of that picture? Hey! probably very little thermal compression with a horn like that! Regards moray James.
Didn't Adrian Mack build a great big horn speaker in his back yard behind his deck out of lots of snow and a garden hose to ice it all up hard? Cool project put one next to the hot tub turn up the volume and you have a jacuzzi. Tried to find the picture no luck. Anybody got a copy of that picture? Hey! probably very little thermal compression with a horn like that! Regards moray James.
Anyone have any experience with the LMT15's from TC Sounds? I just got a pair from a hookup, and am testing them.
would like to hear some feedback. Also, any experience with other TC Sound drivers such as the UE-15 and so on?!
would like to hear some feedback. Also, any experience with other TC Sound drivers such as the UE-15 and so on?!
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I have a couple Lambda 15 SB Le drivers for sale, these drivers are specialised for sealed box applications, but I have no idea how they compare to the TC drivers etc. Stryke/AE has taken over the Lambda line now. You could go isobarik with these if maximum output/boxsize is paramount, ending up with a 15s output in a 12 box.
Horrible response from closed enclosure on AV15
so I'm playing with the AV15 in winISD, and I am getting a nice response curve with the ported enclosure, but a HORRIBLE response on a closed enclosure (no matter how I play with it).
I'm trying my best, but nothing seems to work on the closed design, no matter what I try. On the other hand, the vented enclosure has a beautiful response curve flat to around 18 hz, but the volume is an insanely HUGE 9.26 ft^3
can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong???
This is annoying, since I was really hoping for a sealed sub with either a single av15 or dual av12's....perhaps I did the wrong parameters when entering it into winISD...here they are:
so I'm playing with the AV15 in winISD, and I am getting a nice response curve with the ported enclosure, but a HORRIBLE response on a closed enclosure (no matter how I play with it).
I'm trying my best, but nothing seems to work on the closed design, no matter what I try. On the other hand, the vented enclosure has a beautiful response curve flat to around 18 hz, but the volume is an insanely HUGE 9.26 ft^3
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong???
This is annoying, since I was really hoping for a sealed sub with either a single av15 or dual av12's....perhaps I did the wrong parameters when entering it into winISD...here they are:Poor ssabripo, take it easy my friend hehe!
You forgot to enter Le and the Diameter in your WinISD parameters. Le will change the curve a bit, you should edit the parameters and fix that.
Sealed enclosures work like that, every sealed enclosure on earth.
They drop with a 6 dB/octave rolloff.
Ported enclosures drop faster under tuning, about 12 dB/octave.
You forgot about an important concept. It's called room gain. Imagine in WinISD a line going from 0 dB at 80 Hz, and going up by about 3 dB per octave, so +3 dB at 40 Hz, +6 dB at 20 Hz, +9 dB at 10 Hz and so on. In a car, you gain even more than in a house.
The response in WinISD is the response you would see if your subwoofer was going to play music in the center of your backyard without anything near it.
You should design your enclosure to take that into account. Design it to have a curve following the inverse of the room gain curve. Start the curve at -6 dB at 20 Hz, -3 dB at 40 Hz and 0 dB at 80 Hz for example.
Then when in a room, you're back to flat frequency response curve.
A sealed box in a room will drop by 3 dB per octave, that's life. Alot of people can live with that, they prefer the sound of sealed boxes anyway. Some of them use EQs to bring the response flat.
With that in mind, you can design a smaller enclosure. You could do 6 cu.ft tuned to 19.5 Hz, or 7 cu.ft tuned to 18 Hz. You could make a compromise and use 5 cu.ft tuned to 19.5 Hz.
If it's still too big, you could use a single AV12 instead, that will let you use much smaller vented boxes.
If you want to go with your AV15 and it's too big, don't worry, build a sealed box and you'll be happy anyway. 4.25 cu.ft would give you the usual Q=0.707, you could even build it smaller if you want to. 3 cu.ft with about 3 lbs of dacron-polyesther stuffing would yield about the same results too.
You forgot to enter Le and the Diameter in your WinISD parameters. Le will change the curve a bit, you should edit the parameters and fix that.
Sealed enclosures work like that, every sealed enclosure on earth.
They drop with a 6 dB/octave rolloff.
Ported enclosures drop faster under tuning, about 12 dB/octave.
You forgot about an important concept. It's called room gain. Imagine in WinISD a line going from 0 dB at 80 Hz, and going up by about 3 dB per octave, so +3 dB at 40 Hz, +6 dB at 20 Hz, +9 dB at 10 Hz and so on. In a car, you gain even more than in a house.
The response in WinISD is the response you would see if your subwoofer was going to play music in the center of your backyard without anything near it.
You should design your enclosure to take that into account. Design it to have a curve following the inverse of the room gain curve. Start the curve at -6 dB at 20 Hz, -3 dB at 40 Hz and 0 dB at 80 Hz for example.
Then when in a room, you're back to flat frequency response curve.
A sealed box in a room will drop by 3 dB per octave, that's life. Alot of people can live with that, they prefer the sound of sealed boxes anyway. Some of them use EQs to bring the response flat.
With that in mind, you can design a smaller enclosure. You could do 6 cu.ft tuned to 19.5 Hz, or 7 cu.ft tuned to 18 Hz. You could make a compromise and use 5 cu.ft tuned to 19.5 Hz.
If it's still too big, you could use a single AV12 instead, that will let you use much smaller vented boxes.
If you want to go with your AV15 and it's too big, don't worry, build a sealed box and you'll be happy anyway. 4.25 cu.ft would give you the usual Q=0.707, you could even build it smaller if you want to. 3 cu.ft with about 3 lbs of dacron-polyesther stuffing would yield about the same results too.
I fixed the Le, played around a little with room gain, etc.....here is what the project looks like now:
I would love to see what you guys can do with the AV15....
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I would love to see what you guys can do with the AV15....
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