Rumor has been for quite some time that AE Speakers is working on an uber-excursion driver that is going to push the limits of suspension technology using a special linear motor that will be more musical and have less distortion than the TC Sounds LMT. That thread from the old AE Speakers board got lost when the board got hacked earlier this year. And with Deon Bearden (the designer of the original Stryke HE15 woofers) on board at AE Speakers, there's no telling what that may mean. The original Stryke HE15 was DUMAX-verified at 38mm (though only spec'd at 34mm), and when AE Speakers' new linear motor system is ready, it will be possible to get an extreme, extreme amount of clean, musical bass.
Recommended EBS alignment for the AV15 woofers is 8.8 cubic feet, tuned to 17 Hz. I have a post on the AE board detailing a dual-AV15 EBS sonotube subwoofer (sonosub) that's over six feet tall and 24" in diameter. AV12 and AV15 woofers are suitable for up-firing and down-firing use, with sag that's less than 3% Xmax (the acceptable max. sag is 5% Xmax).
Recommended EBS alignment for the AV15 woofers is 8.8 cubic feet, tuned to 17 Hz. I have a post on the AE board detailing a dual-AV15 EBS sonotube subwoofer (sonosub) that's over six feet tall and 24" in diameter. AV12 and AV15 woofers are suitable for up-firing and down-firing use, with sag that's less than 3% Xmax (the acceptable max. sag is 5% Xmax).
They will need to be really extreme, because the big MTX is spec'd at 64 mm Xmax, and I think there's a more "normal" driver from another company I can't remember is spec'd at 50 mm Xmax.
The thing that's nice, is they will release a 18 inches version. That will be really good. Let say 50.8 mm Xmax 18 inches driver, that would be nice.
The thing that's nice, is they will release a 18 inches version. That will be really good. Let say 50.8 mm Xmax 18 inches driver, that would be nice.
Insane Excursion
OK OK these new drivers may have 40+mm one way travel, but what are we looking at as far as sensitivity here...
The golden rule is of course choose two of the 3
1.small box
2.LF extension
3.high efficiency
Now I'll live with a big box personally... is it possible to get any of these uberwoofers past 90db@1w???
OK OK these new drivers may have 40+mm one way travel, but what are we looking at as far as sensitivity here...
The golden rule is of course choose two of the 3
1.small box
2.LF extension
3.high efficiency
Now I'll live with a big box personally... is it possible to get any of these uberwoofers past 90db@1w???
ok guys....some more updates:
To PR or not to PR, that is the question
.....passive Radiators, of course!
Modeling the AE-Speakers AV15 using 2 18" passive Radiators yields a simulation similar to a Vented box tuned to 17Hz (see purple graph vs green graph):
But there is more to it......the issue with distortion and compression due to vent velocity. You want to keep vent velocity below 10m/s as that is the point when distortion becomes audible. With 125W input you will hit that 10m/s vent velocity at 16hz. That is at the point of about 103.9dB output. Still pretty good, but with the PR's you don't have the issue of vent velocity at all. You are limited by the displacement of the PR. The 18" PR's are good to about 25mm one way. With 500W input you will reach that 25mm at 16hz. This is at a level of about 114dB at 16hz. This is a HUGE increase in output from the vented enclosure The other thing to note is that the suspension of the PR changes the Q of the rolloff. This typically gives a little peak in output right at the tuning frequency.
However, I've also know of complaints on PRs, particularly the transient response of PR alignment inferior to ported; and they do have a bit sharper cutoff being a 5th order system (vs 4th for ported).
so, my dear Gurus, what is your take on all of this..... I can get two 18" PRs at 1/2 price from a contact, so I don't know if it's worth it (that's $150), or should I spend that extra $$ towards......
.....an Adire Brahma 12" (new version)
the AV15 is a tremendous value and a very capable Driver, but I can buy a 12" Brahma for $370, which coincidentally is the difference between just an AV15 or getting the Av15 AND the PR18's...
now, here are a couple of designs using the 15" brahma:
The green and yellow graphs are my own designs, using 8-10ft^3 enclosures tuned to 18hz. The Cyan is the 5.5ft^3 enclosure tuned to 17hz that Adire is recommending, which I don't understand because it is considerably lower in output and not flat at all.....but they insist this is the best .......the purple is the AV15 for comparison's sake (no passive radiator)
Anyways, I know you guys are big into the Adire so I would like to hear some real world experience and opinion on the Brahma's......I really need to see how it would do against the AV15 with dual PR18's!
unless of course.....
we cough up the big $$ and go Tumult 15"
@ $599, the tumult is certainly a HUGE price ticket, and will put the project in another category of price......will the performance follow????
Here is a quick design in Bassbox (didn't have time to port over the specs in winISD):
very nice curve, high levels of SPL, etc....I know it is an incredible beast, but how much of a difference in performance and sound quality are we talking about here?
so it boils down to:
1. Av15 in vented box, $200
2. Av15 with 2 PR18's, $350
3. Brahma 12" vented, $370
4. Tumult 15", vented, $600
enclosure, materials, and amp will remain similar, unless I go tumult in which case I will need to go to a bigger amp....(another big thing to consider)
To PR or not to PR, that is the question
.....passive Radiators, of course!
Modeling the AE-Speakers AV15 using 2 18" passive Radiators yields a simulation similar to a Vented box tuned to 17Hz (see purple graph vs green graph):An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
But there is more to it......the issue with distortion and compression due to vent velocity. You want to keep vent velocity below 10m/s as that is the point when distortion becomes audible. With 125W input you will hit that 10m/s vent velocity at 16hz. That is at the point of about 103.9dB output. Still pretty good, but with the PR's you don't have the issue of vent velocity at all. You are limited by the displacement of the PR. The 18" PR's are good to about 25mm one way. With 500W input you will reach that 25mm at 16hz. This is at a level of about 114dB at 16hz. This is a HUGE increase in output from the vented enclosure
The other thing to note is that the suspension of the PR changes the Q of the rolloff. This typically gives a little peak in output right at the tuning frequency.However, I've also know of complaints on PRs, particularly the transient response of PR alignment inferior to ported; and they do have a bit sharper cutoff being a 5th order system (vs 4th for ported).
so, my dear Gurus, what is your take on all of this..... I can get two 18" PRs at 1/2 price from a contact, so I don't know if it's worth it (that's $150), or should I spend that extra $$ towards......
.....an Adire Brahma 12" (new version)
the AV15 is a tremendous value and a very capable Driver, but I can buy a 12" Brahma for $370, which coincidentally is the difference between just an AV15 or getting the Av15 AND the PR18's...
now, here are a couple of designs using the 15" brahma:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
The green and yellow graphs are my own designs, using 8-10ft^3 enclosures tuned to 18hz. The Cyan is the 5.5ft^3 enclosure tuned to 17hz that Adire is recommending, which I don't understand because it is considerably lower in output and not flat at all.....but they insist this is the best
.......the purple is the AV15 for comparison's sake (no passive radiator)Anyways, I know you guys are big into the Adire so I would like to hear some real world experience and opinion on the Brahma's......I really need to see how it would do against the AV15 with dual PR18's!
unless of course.....
we cough up the big $$ and go Tumult 15"
@ $599, the tumult is certainly a HUGE price ticket, and will put the project in another category of price......will the performance follow????
Here is a quick design in Bassbox (didn't have time to port over the specs in winISD):
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
very nice curve, high levels of SPL, etc....I know it is an incredible beast, but how much of a difference in performance and sound quality are we talking about here?
so it boils down to:
1. Av15 in vented box, $200
2. Av15 with 2 PR18's, $350
3. Brahma 12" vented, $370
4. Tumult 15", vented, $600
enclosure, materials, and amp will remain similar, unless I go tumult in which case I will need to go to a bigger amp....(another big thing to consider)
Here you go fellas.....I'm almost wrapped up with the AutoCAD design....time to goto work with ordering the wood, cutting, glueing, etc etc....
wire frame:
rendered outside:
rendered internals (braces, no driver no amp added):
wire frame:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
rendered outside:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
rendered internals (braces, no driver no amp added):
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Well Ladies.....after 2 months of waiting, the parts are FINALLY here
get ready for some serious bass biacthes! LOL
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
get ready for some serious bass biacthes! LOL
part 2:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
It's DONE!
Chuck and I finished the sub today, and tested it out.....At first, we tested it out in Chuck's setup, and the amp Failed!! It blew a fuse twice at relatively moderate levels during Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (Earth Exploding scene). Needless to say, after several days of hard work (and the bulk of it by Chuck, I might add), we were fairly bummed that the amp did not work as good (or so I thought)....What we did hear though, sounded excellent.
Here are some pics before I took the sub home:
Wiring the Driver, and finished mounting it:
In Chuck's living room doing some prelim tests....great, if it wasn't for the amp fuses blowing:
The Next CSS (Chuck-Shervin Subwoofers) subwoofer company designers/owners!! LMAO!!
Next, we loaded the sub in my truck and I went home pretty bummed....but I decided to stop by Radio Shack and get some more fuses and the sub cable, just to see....and BOY WAS I GLAD I DID!!! Got home, changed the fuse, got my neighbor to help me unloaded it and put it in the room, opposite to the SVS:
My guess was that we had the setting too hot in Chuck's home, and for whatever reason, the amp just couldn't handle the inrush of current when the earth was exploding, at Chuck's house. I Turned the Gain down to about 10 o'clock, and set the PEQ's identical to my SVS ultra (as per Ilkka's settings). Loaded the same on hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy, and BOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMM!!!! Beautiful, unadulterated bass, and NO BLOWN FUSE! at first I was like whoa, that is outstanding, but then I realized I was running both subs....hehehe.
Next, I had my neighbor sit down, and I put the Sub crashing against the wall scene in Finding Nemo. I kept repeating it, and played with the gains to get them just right! next, I played them the scene, first with only the SVS Ultra in 16hz mode, and then the AV15 (18hz).....I thought the AV15 was clearly the better bigger puncher, and oddly enough deeper subsonic effect, but I didn't think the difference was Drastic per say. My Neighbor did however; his comment was: "dude, the one on the right hits me deep in the chest...makes my butt tingle" .
I did several A-Bs and in every single category, the AV15 behaved much louder, deeper, and just better Visceraly! More info to follow in the next week, as I will be telling Oaudio to send me a new amp (just in case), and I will need to run TrueRTA to get some measurements. I will probablyl have Chuck come over and gimme a hand with tunning it.
Some final thoughts: Some thoughts that puzzle me, so feel free to share your thoughts:
1. The Ultra is set to 16hz, the AV15 to 18hz, but the AV sounded much louder and you can "feel" it more when running subsonic notes (10-18hz)....how is this possible? The Ultra in 16hz should have more impact at around the tuning frequency.....
2. When running both, the impact is ferocious! But even when just running the AV15 alone, the impact is deeper. I will run some Sweeps to figure out what is going on...maybe there are some cancellations happening at around the SVS's Tuning freqs.
Anyways....Hope you guys enjoyed my (our -> Chuck was instrumental in this project) journey as much as we did. i wish I could post clips so you can see, and I will shortly. And if you are around the Fort lauderdale area, feel free to stop by!!!!
Next: Veneer finish and final touchups! I will be doing measurements in the next couple of weeks, once I get all the tools and stuff...
Chuck and I finished the sub today, and tested it out.....At first, we tested it out in Chuck's setup, and the amp Failed!!
It blew a fuse twice at relatively moderate levels during Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (Earth Exploding scene). Needless to say, after several days of hard work (and the bulk of it by Chuck, I might add), we were fairly bummed that the amp did not work as good (or so I thought)....What we did hear though, sounded excellent.Here are some pics before I took the sub home:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Wiring the Driver, and finished mounting it:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
In Chuck's living room doing some prelim tests....great, if it wasn't for the amp fuses blowing:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
The Next CSS (Chuck-Shervin Subwoofers) subwoofer company designers/owners!! LMAO!!
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Next, we loaded the sub in my truck and I went home pretty bummed....but I decided to stop by Radio Shack and get some more fuses and the sub cable, just to see....and BOY WAS I GLAD I DID!!! Got home, changed the fuse, got my neighbor to help me unloaded it and put it in the room, opposite to the SVS:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
My guess was that we had the setting too hot in Chuck's home, and for whatever reason, the amp just couldn't handle the inrush of current when the earth was exploding, at Chuck's house. I Turned the Gain down to about 10 o'clock, and set the PEQ's identical to my SVS ultra (as per Ilkka's settings). Loaded the same on hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy, and BOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMM!!!! Beautiful, unadulterated bass, and NO BLOWN FUSE! at first I was like whoa, that is outstanding, but then I realized I was running both subs....hehehe.
Next, I had my neighbor sit down, and I put the Sub crashing against the wall scene in Finding Nemo. I kept repeating it, and played with the gains to get them just right! next, I played them the scene, first with only the SVS Ultra in 16hz mode, and then the AV15 (18hz).....I thought the AV15 was clearly the better bigger puncher, and oddly enough deeper subsonic effect, but I didn't think the difference was Drastic per say. My Neighbor did however; his comment was: "dude, the one on the right hits me deep in the chest...makes my butt tingle" .
I did several A-Bs and in every single category, the AV15 behaved much louder, deeper, and just better Visceraly! More info to follow in the next week, as I will be telling Oaudio to send me a new amp (just in case), and I will need to run TrueRTA to get some measurements. I will probablyl have Chuck come over and gimme a hand with tunning it.
Some final thoughts: Some thoughts that puzzle me, so feel free to share your thoughts:
1. The Ultra is set to 16hz, the AV15 to 18hz, but the AV sounded much louder and you can "feel" it more when running subsonic notes (10-18hz)....how is this possible? The Ultra in 16hz should have more impact at around the tuning frequency.....
2. When running both, the impact is ferocious! But even when just running the AV15 alone, the impact is deeper. I will run some Sweeps to figure out what is going on...maybe there are some cancellations happening at around the SVS's Tuning freqs.
Anyways....Hope you guys enjoyed my (our -> Chuck was instrumental in this project) journey as much as we did. i wish I could post clips so you can see, and I will shortly. And if you are around the Fort lauderdale area, feel free to stop by!!!!
Next: Veneer finish and final touchups! I will be doing measurements in the next couple of weeks, once I get all the tools and stuff...
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.