Tumult Subwoofer PA box designs?

[riddlah]

hi im new

i was looking into getting 4 15" adire audio tumult subs (two in each box)
right now im using 2 12" shiva mk2 subwoofers in a custom 4th oder bandpass box. iv been using this 4 years now and im still impressed with the performance but i also use it for small events at times and the sound levels varies in the sence that sometimes its sounds o.k but most times the speakers are running at its max and does not seem loud at all. so i am looking to upgrade to the tumult.

at one time i used my existing subs at a boat party with another guys system and i could barly hear my subs, which were completely drowned out by his single active makie 15" sub (dont know what model) my subs are very loud in certain rooms but just dont seem that great now. iv looked into the way PA bassbins are designed to see what may if any would be best suited for the tumult subs but i cant decide on a design.

my main question is what subwoofer enclosure would suit best for a loud, deep powerfull sound that without losing too much musical definition but most importantly have serious impact?

and also are there any advantages over the way PA style speakers are designed compaired to typical sealed, ported reflex designed boxes?

iv drawn up a rough quick idea of a design usiing caracteristics of a bandpass, ported rexflex and a passive radiator, do u think there is any benefit from doing this?

thanks for any help

[95Honda]

I'm not sure if the Tumult would be the best choice for this application.

Are you mainly going to use it for PA?

[simon5]

4 Tumults will have serious low bass, IMO I would use simple bass reflex boxes. You would need several passive radiators to follow 4 Tumults so the price will be quite high.

95Honda is right, if it's only for PA, you might want to look elsewhere with drivers with extreme sensivity/efficiency.

[Rademakers]

i could barly hear my subs, which were completely drowned out by his single active makie 15" sub

Both the Shiva and Tumult are optimised for low frequency response.

The Mackie 15" most likely didn't do much below 40 - 50 Hz. But optimised for 50 - 200 Hz it will give the same output in that frequency band as a Shiva or Tumult would with 4 up to even 10 times the amount of power the Mackie needs.

Below 40 -50 Hz the output of the Mackie drops like a rock, while a Tumult doesn't mind hitting 20 Hz before roll off.

If you would use 4 Tumults however, powered with a total of 6400 Wrms, you would have a PA system like nothing else. Hitting 126 dB at 20 Hz must be a scary experience. Not very usefull for many types of music because you wouldn't miss much with an lowcut at 40 Hz. Some types of music however would benefit from it greatly.

I thought about going that way before I started my PA but decided that 6400 Wrms is a lot of power, meaning a lot of amplifiers or/and a lot of money.

Two good 18" with each getting 900 Wrms will be louder from about 45 Hz and up than 4 Tumults powered with 6400 Wrms. Beneath 40 Hz the 2 x 18" would get blown away.

The 4 Tumults would need to be stacked together however. If you would place 2 Tumults a side instead of a centerstack of 4, you would need double the power (so 12800 Wrms) to keep the situation as stated above as it is.

Every doubling of loudspeakers stacked together will give you a 3 dB SPL-increase for free and another 3 dB because you can double the power. This means that by only placing the 4 Tumults together, you will get 6 dB extra (which will be the same as 4 times the power). Placing against a wall or in a corner will further increase the SPL-level. Outside however you would loose about 6 dB compared to use inside.

If you're still going for the Tumults (do it, do it ) best use a basreflex. If you just want to blow that 15" Mackie guy away next time use 15"or 18" PA-drivers, or go hornloaded.

Mvg Johan

[mike.e]

Your misusing a loudspeaker
A loudspeaker efficiency is determined by its parameters.
Hornloading can increase efficiency to near 50%.

See Hoffmans iron law.

Get a 'fitz tuba or bass reflex from eminence(proven designs and woofers)

[riddlah]

hi

yes i was looking to use them mainly for PA, but also for home use too, as i have alot of room space to fill and i do like intense amounts of bass but with decent sound quality too, i did intend to use 2-3 PR's per sub bucause of the hight xmas on these drivers.

im chosing this subs because iv been impresses with all the other stuff from adire audio too, but if your suggesting another driver, is there anything out there better that is suited?
i really dont want to have to buy anymore subs for the next few years so i really want to build something that would blow most sub systems away

i intend to make these subs active also

[95Honda]

It sounds like you plan to spend some money, If I were you I would check out these two drivers. I have used the 1808 (earlier version of the NRT 18-8) and heard the Mccauley 6174. These are about some of the top end 18" PA drivers. They are not cheap, but they are very heavy hitters in the low end arena. Not much out there in the way of PA drivers that can match these bad boys....

http://www.aurasound.com/proaudio/frameset2.html



http://www.wardsweb.org/audio/6174specs.html

The Mccauley site wasn't working, but this is a link to the parameters...

[Rademakers]

i really want to build something that would blow most sub systems away

Low frequency-wise or SPL-wise?

Mvg Johan

[riddlah]

Originally posted by Rademakers

Low frequency-wise or SPL-wise?

Mvg Johan

both really, but mainly have a very high SPL output, ideally i would like to build something that has low cut off to around 25hz (-3db) or lower
i know this is very easly possible using bass reflex etc but im very interested in using a horn loaded design, i have a good in depth knowledge about bandpass, reflex enclosure designs, i know of horn designs and PA style stuff but my knowledge about them is limited.

iv been looking at a few sites about horn loaded and scoop designs but im a abit unsure as to which is the most efficient design and has a decent low end.

my ideal setup would me to have serious "heartpounding" bass, but still churn out very deep bass at a high SPL level too.

[Rademakers]

both really, but mainly have a very high SPL output, ideally i would like to build something that has low cut off to around 25hz (-3db) or lower

You know what you're asking? To get 25 Hz at (-3 dB) decent PA-level you need big cabinets and lots of them, then still it's low.

What does the average PA around there? How many cabs of what?

Mvg Johan