Hi guys
I got an idea for combining a Karlson with a slot-loaded port. This idea is that a Karlson does not load to very low (down to about 50Hz or so for the K15). So why not load it below the box with a slot-loaded port? I have added a picture to illustrate my idea. The Karlson will be loaded by the driver, and the slot below will extend the bass response. I have modelled something like the situation I am suggesting. I modelled an Eminence Sigma Pro18A in both a sealed and ported box. I will post the responses in the next post. Tell me what you guys think.
Thanks,
Deon
I got an idea for combining a Karlson with a slot-loaded port. This idea is that a Karlson does not load to very low (down to about 50Hz or so for the K15). So why not load it below the box with a slot-loaded port? I have added a picture to illustrate my idea. The Karlson will be loaded by the driver, and the slot below will extend the bass response. I have modelled something like the situation I am suggesting. I modelled an Eminence Sigma Pro18A in both a sealed and ported box. I will post the responses in the next post. Tell me what you guys think.
Thanks,
Deon
Attachments
Cool.
I'm South African too, 1st language Afrikaans, if you want a chat about the audio and or whatever add me on my ICQ: 323-031-915 or my MSN: a_bikerz_rush@hotmail.com
I'm South African too, 1st language Afrikaans, if you want a chat about the audio and or whatever add me on my ICQ: 323-031-915 or my MSN: a_bikerz_rush@hotmail.com
Hi Johnny
Nog 'n mal boertjie. Ek moes geraai het.
Deon
PS. My e-pos address is deonc@cyberzone.co.za
Nog 'n mal boertjie. Ek moes geraai het.
Deon
PS. My e-pos address is deonc@cyberzone.co.za
Hehehe
Verlang maar na die ou Suid Afrika, donnerse bouzies. Was nog jonk toe ek daar weg is so verskoon maar die spelling asb.
If you can, download MSN Messenger or ICQ - instant messengers, easy to talk directly to each other.
My E-Pos is daai ander een in my eerste post.
Moedeloos met my woord spelling Sorry boet
Verlang maar na die ou Suid Afrika, donnerse bouzies. Was nog jonk toe ek daar weg is so verskoon maar die spelling asb.
If you can, download MSN Messenger or ICQ - instant messengers, easy to talk directly to each other.
My E-Pos is daai ander een in my eerste post.
Moedeloos met my woord spelling
Sorry boet
Hi Deon
with very limited esperinece - say front coupler fed by internal vent does not pose an additional cutoff or lose output so one might wish to keep vent inside. Could be tried both ways.
Carl's son sometimes uses taller couplers than original - not sure if analogous to BP effect of lower front chamber tuning to faltten passband
heres a rough guess for a tall 12 plus slot calculator from forumal provided by Carl which assume goes trough two useful conditions:
P=1/Q=1.7 - opens a bit faster than radial
P=1/Q=3 -slow flare for 1st half then opens up around driver
high aspect
http://130.89.239.148/kforum/read.php?f=1&i=6170&t=6170
Carl's 2-variable formula http://home.earthlink.net/~buddhaboy2/KSLOT
Best,
Freddy
with very limited esperinece - say front coupler fed by internal vent does not pose an additional cutoff or lose output so one might wish to keep vent inside. Could be tried both ways.
Carl's son sometimes uses taller couplers than original - not sure if analogous to BP effect of lower front chamber tuning to faltten passband
heres a rough guess for a tall 12 plus slot calculator from forumal provided by Carl which assume goes trough two useful conditions:
P=1/Q=1.7 - opens a bit faster than radial
P=1/Q=3 -slow flare for 1st half then opens up around driver
high aspect
http://130.89.239.148/kforum/read.php?f=1&i=6170&t=6170
Carl's 2-variable formula http://home.earthlink.net/~buddhaboy2/KSLOT
Best,
Freddy
suggestion
Why not have the slot loaded port enter the Koupler up at the top so that the wave front kouples via the Koupler to the front side of the driver where the load will do the most good? I have done this with a number of designs. My second suggestion (which I have not tried (yet) is to have the slot at the rear of the cabinet as far away as possible from the Koupler to minimise cancelation and optomize output. I think that this is where Onur would put it. Regards Moray James.
Why not have the slot loaded port enter the Koupler up at the top so that the wave front kouples via the Koupler to the front side of the driver where the load will do the most good? I have done this with a number of designs. My second suggestion (which I have not tried (yet) is to have the slot at the rear of the cabinet as far away as possible from the Koupler to minimise cancelation and optomize output. I think that this is where Onur would put it. Regards Moray James.
DeonC,
The Karlson enclosure was the first 6th order series tuned bandpass enclosure with the front panel expotential opening acting as the port for the front chamber.
The Karlson was developed before the concept of bandpass enclosures was postulated.
Your slots should be located at the top of the enclosure, behind the front panel, but otherwise your design should work well if it properly tuned.
Larry
The Karlson enclosure was the first 6th order series tuned bandpass enclosure with the front panel expotential opening acting as the port for the front chamber.
The Karlson was developed before the concept of bandpass enclosures was postulated.
Your slots should be located at the top of the enclosure, behind the front panel, but otherwise your design should work well if it properly tuned.
Larry
Hi Larry -
Carl (who almost never posts) would probably say a K ain't BP -but may go with "coupled-cavity" (?)
what happens when one is done tall with quasi-t-line vent like my kluge in post above? - what are the wave paths and when does it not become a classic k-coupler?
below is a sealed rear chamber klam outdoors - wings on verus wings off - mic back about 8 feet adn on ground -may be some directivity issues at the mic (?) FR difference looks something like a BP4 sim would predict.
subjectively, K's are very touchy to initial slot gap and initial flare won't show much on RTA but blocking an inch or so of starting area of slot can kill subjective highs and transients - wonder why?
Carl uses aperture-chamber math relating Leach's horn work to Poppe's k-coupler paper.
when K are - uh - working - then quite a bit of fun.
http://home.earthlink.net/~buddhaboy2/ML18.jpg
Best,
Freddy
Carl (who almost never posts) would probably say a K ain't BP -but may go with "coupled-cavity" (?)
what happens when one is done tall with quasi-t-line vent like my kluge in post above? - what are the wave paths and when does it not become a classic k-coupler?
below is a sealed rear chamber klam outdoors - wings on verus wings off - mic back about 8 feet adn on ground -may be some directivity issues at the mic (?) FR difference looks something like a BP4 sim would predict.
subjectively, K's are very touchy to initial slot gap and initial flare won't show much on RTA but blocking an inch or so of starting area of slot can kill subjective highs and transients - wonder why?
Carl uses aperture-chamber math relating Leach's horn work to Poppe's k-coupler paper.
when K are - uh - working - then quite a bit of fun.
http://home.earthlink.net/~buddhaboy2/ML18.jpg
Best,
Freddy
Freddi,
My first K was in 1966. I got the enclosure from a friend's dad who like to play at woodworking.
I put an EV 12" MI speaker in the K, and mounted an EV T35 tweeter on top. I wound my own coils and wired polarized electrolytics in series for crossover caps.
I drove the K with a BEL 20 watt PP 6V6 amp. My system was in the basement. The first song I played was "Judy in Discuise" by John Fred & his Playboy Band. It shook dishes off the shelf upstairs in the kitchen.
When I hear guys say how bad K's sound, I know they've never really listened to one.
Larry
My first K was in 1966. I got the enclosure from a friend's dad who like to play at woodworking.
I put an EV 12" MI speaker in the K, and mounted an EV T35 tweeter on top. I wound my own coils and wired polarized electrolytics in series for crossover caps.
I drove the K with a BEL 20 watt PP 6V6 amp. My system was in the basement. The first song I played was "Judy in Discuise" by John Fred & his Playboy Band. It shook dishes off the shelf upstairs in the kitchen.
When I hear guys say how bad K's sound, I know they've never really listened to one.
Larry
There are interested designers
I know that Tom Danley is interested and possibly Bill Woods. Could we get Onur Ilkorur interested. There are others out there like Carl and Wayne. Can we get them interested? They could stimulate discussion even with a negative analysis at least we would have an idea of where to go and what to work on. Regards Moray James.
I know that Tom Danley is interested and possibly Bill Woods. Could we get Onur Ilkorur interested. There are others out there like Carl and Wayne. Can we get them interested? They could stimulate discussion even with a negative analysis at least we would have an idea of where to go and what to work on. Regards Moray James.
just an idea to chew on
I know that Onur Ilkorur does not like the idea of a transmission line terminating at or near the driver as his simulations show bass cancelations will result. That said after watching drivers in some Karlsons playing at high level with almost no visable cone motion I do think that the idea has its merrits.
So how about a meeting of the ideas. In most all my K-Line designs I had the driver loaded on the back side with a short transmission line which then terminated into the Karlson koupler at the top of the koupler. Well how about a folded line on the backside of the driver that goes up and folds over to go back down folds again to go back up and terminate at the top back side of the cabinet, as far away as is possible from the driver (to please Onur). At the same time do as Onur does and place a vent into the line (lets use a slot vent to get a slightly wider band) tuned to the resonant frequency of the line. This slot vent would load into the top of the koupler. The vent has then two jobs, to damp the line fundamental and to load the driver on the front side via the Koupler right at the frequency where the line/driver want to take off. Just an idea so have at it and find the faults. This may be interesting. Best regards Moray James.
I know that Onur Ilkorur does not like the idea of a transmission line terminating at or near the driver as his simulations show bass cancelations will result. That said after watching drivers in some Karlsons playing at high level with almost no visable cone motion I do think that the idea has its merrits.
So how about a meeting of the ideas. In most all my K-Line designs I had the driver loaded on the back side with a short transmission line which then terminated into the Karlson koupler at the top of the koupler. Well how about a folded line on the backside of the driver that goes up and folds over to go back down folds again to go back up and terminate at the top back side of the cabinet, as far away as is possible from the driver (to please Onur). At the same time do as Onur does and place a vent into the line (lets use a slot vent to get a slightly wider band) tuned to the resonant frequency of the line. This slot vent would load into the top of the koupler. The vent has then two jobs, to damp the line fundamental and to load the driver on the front side via the Koupler right at the frequency where the line/driver want to take off. Just an idea so have at it and find the faults. This may be interesting. Best regards Moray James.
Hi Moray - might you post a sketch ?
how do lines behave large-signal? (PA levels) - I sometimes look for offset effects - wouldn't happen in K15 but x15 with Sv ~7-10 sq.in. and sustained high levels might get fairly high vent velocities and rectification. Acoustic's 115BK khyboe had 3* x15's port area yet a bilt lower Z minimum.
got Beyma 12cx in X15 copy - bass is solid - fb ~44 - might need tuned a bit higher - not sure if cab is best width / aspect for 12
in traditional k, rear lowpass choke can do mild juggling of Z -peaks.
a week ago tried to write Danley @info - not sure if correct box
for indirect radiator & bulk restrictions, Karlson imo are sometimes a better choice than horn.
(did Alex work more on the pixel/FEA program?)
Freddy
how do lines behave large-signal? (PA levels) - I sometimes look for offset effects - wouldn't happen in K15 but x15 with Sv ~7-10 sq.in. and sustained high levels might get fairly high vent velocities and rectification. Acoustic's 115BK khyboe had 3* x15's port area yet a bilt lower Z minimum.
got Beyma 12cx in X15 copy - bass is solid - fb ~44 - might need tuned a bit higher - not sure if cab is best width / aspect for 12
in traditional k, rear lowpass choke can do mild juggling of Z -peaks.
a week ago tried to write Danley @info - not sure if correct box
for indirect radiator & bulk restrictions, Karlson imo are sometimes a better choice than horn.
(did Alex work more on the pixel/FEA program?)
Freddy
Thanks, guys. This has been really interesting. I really do think I am going to try some of the suggestions here, but I almost definite that I am going to build one (I tend to change my mnind every now and then, but the Karlson just keeps on popping back up, so I can't ignore it). Thanks again. Now all that remains is to experiment. OTOH, if the lot ports below the Karlson does not work, I can always just seal them off and fill them with sand for a nice solid footer. 
Time to join the darkside (i.e. Karlson owners and lovers). 
Hehehehehe. 
Deon
I really do think I am going to try some of the suggestions here, but I almost definite that I am going to build one (I tend to change my mnind every now and then, but the Karlson just keeps on popping back up, so I can't ignore it). Thanks again. Now all that remains is to experiment. OTOH, if the lot ports below the Karlson does not work, I can always just seal them off and fill them with sand for a nice solid footer. Time to join the darkside (i.e. Karlson owners and lovers). Hehehehehe. Deon
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