So.... a few months ago there was talk of adire's transition into the more mainstream or something like that... They changed most of their drivers somewhat and gave MSRP's and said that the new stuff would be available soon....
Available soon... what does that mean anyways? A few months later it seems that the new products still havent been released. I'm going by the Acoustic-visons website(the only online adire dealer I'm aware of). Does anyone know what is going on with them? I know Dan Wiggins and Stephan Kephart sometimes come on these forums...
Maybe some answers are out there?
Available soon... what does that mean anyways? A few months later it seems that the new products still havent been released. I'm going by the Acoustic-visons website(the only online adire dealer I'm aware of). Does anyone know what is going on with them? I know Dan Wiggins and Stephan Kephart sometimes come on these forums...
Maybe some answers are out there?
Maybe they're still working on pulling each others' feet out of the other's hindparts after realizing they did something so stupid as overpricing themselves out of the DIY market compared to their competitors, while they already licensed out their technology to people who were willing to sell for much less.
If I did something like that, I'd have to kick my OWN butt!
If I did something like that, I'd have to kick my OWN butt!
You know those prices were always something I was a bit curious about... But the thing is, they only put MSRP's out there and well almost always things are sold considerably cheaper than MSRP. So how good of a deal adire's new products are.... we'll never know until they hit the market.
I just wonder if they're ever gonna put their products back on the market or if they're just gonna stick with OEM and whatever else they're doing.
I just wonder if they're ever gonna put their products back on the market or if they're just gonna stick with OEM and whatever else they're doing.
Well they are selling plenty of extremis, wr, and fr series drivers, so I don't think they are going out of business or 'getting lost' (whatever that means).
Its interesting that no one is asking the same kinds of questions of Adire's direct competitors, since many like Ascendant and Stryke have had problems in the past with keeping stock on the shelves, and in some cases, can't even seem to produce accurate T/S parameters.
And as for pricing themselves out of the market - time will tell what the market will bear. As far as I can see, aside from the Ascendant clearout drivers (which were never a fair price comparison, being a one time sale of off-spec parts), and assuming a modest discount from MSRP, there are not that many competitors at a better price, and even fewer with a decent distribution/dealer network.
Its interesting that no one is asking the same kinds of questions of Adire's direct competitors, since many like Ascendant and Stryke have had problems in the past with keeping stock on the shelves, and in some cases, can't even seem to produce accurate T/S parameters.
And as for pricing themselves out of the market - time will tell what the market will bear. As far as I can see, aside from the Ascendant clearout drivers (which were never a fair price comparison, being a one time sale of off-spec parts), and assuming a modest discount from MSRP, there are not that many competitors at a better price, and even fewer with a decent distribution/dealer network.
If you look on Creativesound.ca you'll see that some new Adire stuff appeared. It's sold under MSRP, but it's slightly more expensive than the old lineup.
The lineup is not complete, but you can order some flavors Brahmas, Shivas and Tempests.
BTW, the WR and FR is sold by CreativeSound, not Adire. It's using licensed stuff from Adire, but it's not sold by them.
Adire is expanding alot, I would not worry about them.
Morbo, Off-spec parts? You exaggerate alot my friend. If we can tell that a woofer is off-spec because the Le value is not correct when about 75% of speakers dealers don't even publish it and people who do publish it don't always publish the good value...
The lineup is not complete, but you can order some flavors Brahmas, Shivas and Tempests.
BTW, the WR and FR is sold by CreativeSound, not Adire. It's using licensed stuff from Adire, but it's not sold by them.
Adire is expanding alot, I would not worry about them.
Morbo, Off-spec parts? You exaggerate alot my friend. If we can tell that a woofer is off-spec because the Le value is not correct when about 75% of speakers dealers don't even publish it and people who do publish it don't always publish the good value...
I am aware that the WR/FR drivers are not Adire branded, but was under the impression that Adire is doing the manufacturing for them.
Sorry if that is an exaggeration, but thats what it looked like from my POV. We had a brand new company that makes its first range of drivers. All of the sudden, over an imagined slight in a messageboard post, they discontinue them, and sell all of them off at a substantial discount? That doesnt seem a little extreme? And then, people start reporting that measured LE is off spec by a significant amount. Others were saying that the published TS parameters in the various voice coil wirings don't add up. The manufacturer never responds to any of these points. They just discontinued them, sold them off at a greatly decreased margin, and have now gone without revenue for some time as a result, just because of one comment by Dan Wiggins? Doesnt seem likely to me. To be totally clear: I think the AA drivers were an unbelievable deal, extremely well built, and offered very high performance. I also think there was a LOT more to the firesale on them than was reported.
Anyhow that is all besides the point - which was that you can't compare Adire's regular prices to Ascendant Audio's clearance prices on discontinued drivers.
Sorry if that is an exaggeration, but thats what it looked like from my POV. We had a brand new company that makes its first range of drivers. All of the sudden, over an imagined slight in a messageboard post, they discontinue them, and sell all of them off at a substantial discount? That doesnt seem a little extreme? And then, people start reporting that measured LE is off spec by a significant amount. Others were saying that the published TS parameters in the various voice coil wirings don't add up. The manufacturer never responds to any of these points. They just discontinued them, sold them off at a greatly decreased margin, and have now gone without revenue for some time as a result, just because of one comment by Dan Wiggins? Doesnt seem likely to me. To be totally clear: I think the AA drivers were an unbelievable deal, extremely well built, and offered very high performance. I also think there was a LOT more to the firesale on them than was reported.
Anyhow that is all besides the point - which was that you can't compare Adire's regular prices to Ascendant Audio's clearance prices on discontinued drivers.
morbo said:
Maybe you're right on this, I don't know. I know it was designed by Dan Wiggins. I don't know if Adire is manufacturing them or if it's built in a 3rd party buildhouse.
morbo said:
I agree it sounds like a little extreme, but if you're really offensed by something, you may do something extreme. Dan Wiggins wording could be interpreted in a very offensive way or not. Published T/S parameters were ok on the Avalanche line, but on the Atlas line you had to be careful about the Qms and Qes. The Qts was ok so that's not much an issue because you only need Qts to design a subwoofer box. It's true that the manufacturer didn't talk much about these points. The manufacturer is not posting much these days. I heard that guy was really friendly so if someone actually took the time to call him, I'm sure that issue would be resolved long time ago. BTW, maybe this firesale was caused also by something else, but I think not because the same day Dan talked, the manufacturer sold everything. Anyway, as you say, that's beside the point!
morbo said:
I agree on that.
Good points, I've also heard the owner was very good to deal with in person, and certainly the drivers were of very high quality. I will not speculate any further since as we've agreed its besides the point.
As far as Adire goes, I think they will be fine. I think they are refocusing a bit on a somewhat different market segment, probably after taking a hard look at where sales were coming from, and coming at the same time as a major prodcution shift, it ends up looking like more than it is. At least I hope so, they have some very interesting prodcuts and technologies that I don't want to see disappear!
They are doing what I (we) did as a company. Once it is up and running, direct marketing and the like--have to go. The company has to be re-structured with proper distribution, on all systems and levels.. if it is going to survive.
I may be in posession (possibly but unlikely) of some more priveliged information, and am aware of that, so I don't share it..not knowing if it is or not. I have been looking at the product on a custom design level and OEM level, and have been given some insight on what is going on in that company, right now.
Things appear fine to me.
You guys just like kick *** cool woofers. Some are coming. Give it some time.
I may be in posession (possibly but unlikely) of some more priveliged information, and am aware of that, so I don't share it..not knowing if it is or not. I have been looking at the product on a custom design level and OEM level, and have been given some insight on what is going on in that company, right now.
Things appear fine to me.
You guys just like kick *** cool woofers. Some are coming. Give it some time.
morbo said:
My understanding is that Ascendant manufactured these XBL drivers with no agreement in place to licence the tech, and when Adire asked for appropriate royalties they just discontinued them. (ie Ascendant was infringing Adire's patents)
morbo said:
WR125 & FR125 were designed by Adire (Dan Wiggins), and a royalty is paid to Adire for each one sold for the licensing of the XBL tech. The OEM is Chinese.
dave
You're wrong planet10, they used a third party buildhouse which Adire had licensed XBL^2. So they were some kind of a sub-licensee. Adire charged the 3rd party buildhouse for each XBL^2 driver made, and the buildhouse charged Ascendant for each driver made and collected royalties for Adire.
That's one reason why they weren't much communication between Adire and Ascendant. Ascendant didn't have to talk to Adire to start producing drivers and Adire didn't have to talk to Ascendant to start receiving royalties.
That's one reason why they weren't much communication between Adire and Ascendant. Ascendant didn't have to talk to Adire to start producing drivers and Adire didn't have to talk to Ascendant to start receiving royalties.
Drivers should be here soon. It's taken much longer than anyone anticipated. There are a lot of reasons, many of them typical of starting up any new enterprise.
I'll not comment about the various issues between companies but we are hoping to see the first drivers the week after next. There is an air shipment with limited supplies showing up first and thereafter more of the drivers will trickle in.
I have a butt load of 12" & 15" XBL^2 drivers and Tumults. I'm hoping there are still people out there who want them.
I'll not comment about the various issues between companies but we are hoping to see the first drivers the week after next. There is an air shipment with limited supplies showing up first and thereafter more of the drivers will trickle in.
I have a butt load of 12" & 15" XBL^2 drivers and Tumults. I'm hoping there are still people out there who want them.
They are not on there. My policy is that I don't put anything on the site until I have good inventory to ship.
Since these are the first production run I'm also doing some heavy Q/C on the first batch of drivers to make sure our T/S parameters are on target.
Once they arrive most will be listed under Exodus Audio Drivers. We are branding most of the subwoofers with our name but they are all built by CEC and designed by Wiggins.
We will also stock and sell the Adire drivers but those will be in short supply for awhile is my guess.
Since these are the first production run I'm also doing some heavy Q/C on the first batch of drivers to make sure our T/S parameters are on target.
Once they arrive most will be listed under Exodus Audio Drivers. We are branding most of the subwoofers with our name but they are all built by CEC and designed by Wiggins.
We will also stock and sell the Adire drivers but those will be in short supply for awhile is my guess.
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