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Old 18th August 2005, 08:32 PM   #1
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Default Oops! Now what?

I won an ebay auction for a PartsExpress 500W subwoofer plate amp.

I put in the bid not expecting to win this auction.

I had been planning to build something small and tight to go with a pair of Zaph designed MTMs that I'm building.

The NHT 1259 was the driver of choice for that build and I may still end up using it even though this amp will have way too much headroom.

I guess I have a lot more options now, for example I could build something big and tight.

The main thing I want out of this build is something that will be musical and really quick in the transients and that will integrate well with my two-channel music-only system.

Suggestions?
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Old 18th August 2005, 10:59 PM   #2
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The only "really quick" sound I know is PA stuff. How big of a driver are you planning?

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Old 19th August 2005, 12:42 AM   #3
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Hi Cal;

I wasn't "planning" in the traditional sense .

I was "surfing" and came across the plate amp and saw the current high bid, put in something to top it that was still a significant savings over new, and won.

Now I'm sort of backing and filling trying to figure out what to mate with it for the two-channel rig.

You replied to my previous thread and with your help and that of others who responded I decided on a single sub rather than trying for stereo.

After quite a bit of research I had just settled on the NHT 1259 and a 250W plate when this happened.

So now I'm thinking I could go 15" if it will sound really musical. Otherwise I'll stick with a 12".

I like what I've read about the AE AV15 (and the AV12). I'm pretty sure that the Selenium Pro driver you recommended won't work because it's an 8 ohm load. I also can't feature why it would be a good subwoofer in a sealed enclosure with such a high Fs. I truly don't know much but I do know lower is better.

I know simon5 will advocate the AE drivers. Can I do better than the 15" for $180?

I have some time to work this out because the amp doesn't arrive for a while and the drivers for the MTMs are back-ordered at Madisound until Sept 15th.

Any and all suggestions for a musical sub for a two channel rig will be appreciated.
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Old 19th August 2005, 02:10 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by cytokine [B
I'm pretty sure that the Selenium Pro driver you recommended won't work because it's an 8 ohm load. [/B]
I don't understand.

Quote:
[i] I also can't feature why it would be a good subwoofer in a sealed enclosure with such a high Fs. [/B]
I agree it's not a sub. It's just called that. (A sore point with me by the way. I don't believe it should be called a sub unless the Fs is 20Hz or lower) Rather it delivers bass in the PA way. It pounds itself into you with high dB, very litlle flubber and doesn't worry too much about the really low end. Great for music, perhaps not as suited to HT.

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Old 19th August 2005, 02:29 AM   #5
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Power handling of the driver is 800W. The plate amp is 500W into 4 ohm, ~250 into 8 ohm. That would be under-utilization of both pieces of equipment.

So it isn't a sub after all... As far as delivering bass the PA way, my feelings about that are mixed. I don't think of PA bass as being wonderful yet at the same time the last stadium show I went to was Santana a few years ago and my wife's comment was that the bass hit you in the chest. Sort of knocked the wind out of her for a moment. Is that what this driver does?

Will it work with that plate amp in the way I described above? Is it the one you have, and do you swear by it ?
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Old 19th August 2005, 04:27 AM   #6
rcw is offline rcw  Australia
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Default re bass

The bass that resonates the chest cavity is good old 60Hz. punch region bass, the gut resonance is around one octave lower at 30Hz.
You can get 30Hz. output from drivers like the Selinium 15 swip, and this is done with the filter assisted Qb5 class I alignments.
The 60Hz. alignments are the class II of these and allow the full voice coil disipation to be used without exceeding the linear excursion limit, producing an average sound level of 125-130db.
The details of these alignments can be found on Rod Elliots site at.
www.sound.com.au
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Old 19th August 2005, 04:54 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by cytokine
That would be under-utilization of both pieces of equipment.
With that kind of dB, I think it will suffice.

Quote:
[i] I don't think of PA bass as being wonderful yet at the same time <snip> my wife's comment was that the bass hit you in the chest. Sort of knocked the wind out of her for a moment. Is that what this driver does?[/B]
Hopefully.

Quote:
[i]Will it work with that plate amp in the way I described above? [/B]
I would think so. 250 watts into that driver is more than you'll need. Unless of course you like going to the dentist.

Quote:
[i] Is it the one you have, and do you swear by it [/B]
No, but I do own other similar Selenium stuff, and I like their bang for the buck.

I'm not suggesting this is the right approach for all but for those without the "golden ear" it can be as enjoyable as your wife's experience.

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Old 19th August 2005, 05:50 AM   #8
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Who says that you need to use all 500W
Just be glad that you got your self high power amp.....
Choose the driver you first had in mind, and you got need system
which do not run out of power

Edit: Or use the extra power to electronic eq the woofer down in Hz ;-)
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Old 19th August 2005, 01:24 PM   #9
simon5 is offline simon5  Canada
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If 180$ is too much, you could go with this :

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=295-190

You seem to be sold on the NHT. Why not use two NHT?

Anyway, if you can spend 180$, the AV15 is definitely the way to go hehe! Just compare the specs, we are talking about 23mm Xmax versus 13mm for the NHT.

That woofer will achieve sufficient 30 Hz or 60 Hz punch anyway IMHO.
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Old 19th August 2005, 03:03 PM   #10
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You guys are great! Thanks for all the suggestions.

The topic that is getting lost a bit here is SQ. I haven't heard any of these products and so I'm making a blind purchase no matter what I buy almost.

I think almost any driver I match with this amp will produce more than enough SPL for my listening tastes. I mostly listen to acoustic jazz at moderate to low volumes and only occasionally do I feel a need to rattle the windows. I can do that any time I wish with the HT rig anyway. So really what I'm looking for is a good match for the PE 500W plate that will do that job.

I'm not necessarily sold on the NHT. In fact I'm really impressed by what I've read about the AV12 and the AV15. The $$ is not the issue for a change and I can buy what I need to make this sound really good.

I could get a pair of NHTs (if those sound best according to concensus of the forum) as ACD suggests and I have considered that. Hell, I've considered doing a wall of 4 . That would get the coveted eye-roll from Mrs. cytokine.

I'm not yet to the point of paralysis by analysis, but I'm getting close so I'm probably going to make a purchase soon just to get it over with.

What I guess I want to know now is, what parameters determine how good a sub will sound and can you tell the difference between similar drivers at similar price points?

simon, you keep coming back to the massive x-max of the AV as the comparable spec, and you also say it sounds good. Maybe that's the driver for me. I'm currently leaning that way as a way to keep the project "smallish".

Will the AV15 sound good in a sealed box (how big a box?) and can I make it down-firing?
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