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-   -   Foam core construction for subwoofers (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/62664-foam-core-construction-subwoofers.html)

morbo 16th August 2005 11:44 PM

Foam core construction for subwoofers
 
I am soon going to be building what I *hope* will be the last subs I ever build. To this end, I want to make the enclosures as stiff as possible, since below 100hz stiffness is the most important characteristic of an enclosure. I am currently planning on using 1" plywood, braced extensively. Weight is a bigger constraint for me than volume, these are ~2 cu. ft enclosures, and I have a fair bit of breathing room (max external dimensions are 23x18x16"). I came across this article in searchign for ultrastiff materials to build from or reinforce with, and am curious as to whether folks here agree with the conclusions about rigidity. I know CLD techniques improve damping a great deal, but I have not heard these arguments re: the resulting rigidity before.

http://boatdesign.net/articles/foam-core/

http://boatdesign.net/assets/images/foam-core-2.gif

mwmkravchenko 17th August 2005 03:28 AM

Foam is not all hot air
 
I did some work like this some years ago on the front doors of a couple of churches. To drop the weight I sandwiched the panels with closed cell foam. Worked like charm.

If I were to apply this to a driver box I would laminate a foam core with some thin plywood. If cost is no object then I would use 1/8" baltic birch. The other thing to keep in mind is that a CLD construction is stronger when applied to curved panels rather than flat panels. What you need to pull that off is a decent vacuum press. It would allow the type of clamping that you would require.

Mark

rcw 17th August 2005 04:18 AM

re materials
 
This is a good method of making enclosures.
Basically the fundamental resonance is proportional to the square root of the panel stiffness divided by the mass per unit area.
In things like mdf and most plastics this ratio is about the same and so is that of steel, the difference being that steel is about 100 times stiffer, so the amplitude of the panel vibration is around 40db. less.
Materials with foam or honeycomb cores push the panels resonances up to much higher frequencies, the ultimate material is probably carbon fibre honeycomb in this respect.
Tests done by Small showed that the sound pressure inside a closed box decreases approximatelly hyperbolicaly with frequency, so cored materials can push the principle panel resonance up to frequencies which have very low driving powers and are well above the subwoofer range.

velmeran42 17th August 2005 04:21 AM

Foam is your friend. When we constructed the hull for our University's Human Powered Submarine, we did a sandwich of fiberglass, 2x carbon fiber, and fiberglass, then a layer of 1/8" foam, followed by another F, 2x CF, F. The resulting hull was insanely stiff compared to a similair layup w/o the foam. You could jump up and down on a 1' square panel layed across a fulcrum w/o any flex.

phase_accurate 17th August 2005 06:09 AM

If it weren't that messy I'd have tried it a long time ago after visiting someone who built a boat with that method.

Regards

Charles

Ron E 17th August 2005 11:19 PM

I have thought about doing this since I saw how strong composite materials can be. At school we had a fiberglas/aluminum honeycomb material that was about 1/4-3/8 inch thick and a ~12" long piece could be supported between two objects and hold over 300 lb with very little deflection. The trouble is how to join the panels.

Technically, this is not constrained layer damping, the foam is merely acting like the web in an I-beam, moving the strong parts (the skin) out to where it does the most good. Most stiff foams do not have the greatest dampoing properties - there have been some experiments with styrofoam cones and the breakup was pretty bad....including the oval/rectangular KEF B139, IIRC.

One possible issue with very light subwoofer enclosures is reaction forces, especially with PR subwoofers. The motion of the woofer can be enough to shake the entire enclosure and make it rattle or walk across the floor.

mwmkravchenko 18th August 2005 02:53 AM

Quick idea
 
2 Attachment(s)
See Attached sketch. The brown skin is thin ply or your other idea of a fiberglass or carbon fiber skin. The corners are of course corner blocks. The woofer cut out would have to have a ring of wood to. But it could work. The foam could be laid up in segments as a brick layup. Then with the appropriate hot wire saw you could cut it to shape. Then you must laminate the interior and the exterior. I might just do this to see how it sounds. I've always made my best boxes like a battleship. Maybe it's time to float like a butterfly:D

MArk

velmeran42 18th August 2005 03:36 AM

Carbon fiber would be a bit overkill in this case, or very cost prohibitive at the least. We used it on the sub because we had it donated to us by Fiberlay who I will shamelessly plug for having great service and good products. They have a wonderful two part epoxie for wet layup work that yields great results at ambient temperature and pressure when done right (although it is rather toxic, so a resperator is an absolute must).

BassAwdyO 20th August 2005 01:09 AM

I use to work for an exterior home improvement company and they used a material exactly as you are describing for the sunrooms they built. I think they had some aluminum joints that held it together. The material was very very strong and very very light. It was pretty thick tho(about 2 inches I'd say).

Reactance forces from the inertia of the cone moving could be easily avoided with Push Push driver mounting(opposing drivers to cancel out forces)

angel 20th August 2005 09:08 PM

Re: Foam is not all hot air
 
Quote:

Originally posted by mwmkravchenko
If I were to apply this to a driver box I would laminate a foam core with some thin plywood. If cost is no object then I would use 1/8" baltic birch. The other thing to keep in mind is that a CLD construction is stronger when applied to curved panels rather than flat panels. What you need to pull that off is a decent vacuum press. It would allow the type of clamping that you would require.
Actually, you shouldn't need a vacuum press to curve the panels. If I understood the technique properly, you make cuts in the material before applying the bonding resin. If you adjust the density of these cuts, you can use them as a basis for bending the plates, just like the patented process used by a certain Danish cabinet company.

HTH


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