vocals coming out of subs?

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I have a couple of friends, aged 16, they seem to know everything about stereos and subs. I think they dont. THey paid a stereo shop to install subs, words are coming out of these subs, I tell them they are not hooked up properly because words are on a different frequency than the sub freq. They argue with me and being 16 they know everything. I tell them the subs sound bad with words coming out of them, they say it sounds great and there would be no difference if the words weren't coming thru the subs. Can any one explain to me- to help explain to them that words coming out of the subs is wrong? This should be easy for all of you that know there subs. Thanks
 
There is no crossover installed or it is faulty. Words (vocals) will be usually well over 100Hz unless you are listening to some male Bass singer. Subwoofers should operate from 80Hz on down, because you can usually tell above that where the sound is coming from (localize the source). Tell them they got ripped off on the so-called professional install because this is how 16 year olds install a first system, not how somebody gets PAID to do it. It's ridiculous. It is usually considered to be Not The Way Things Are Done.

That said, I like the way it sounds. I have a sub in my trunk that is uncrossed-over and some instruments and vocals do come through. I have no rear speakers and occasionally it sounds like there is some rear fill. I listen to the radio (music and talk) and have FAR from a pure sound quality setup. But it sounds OK to me. This is, after all, a CAR we are talking about here. Sound quality and cars don't exactly mix very well when cars are driving on the road. If it were a home system, I would say to go ahead and mock them until they are ashamed, but it's "only" a car system.

The moral of the story is: If they like it, they like it. They may have gotten ripped off if they paid much for the install, but to each his own.
 
Subwoofers normally have a frequency response of 20Hz to 150Hz. The human voice in some cases can reach well below 150Hz.

Type of voice..............Frequency range
------------------------------------------------
Bass .....................87.31Hz to 349.23Hz
Baritone................98.00Hz to 392.00Hz
Tenor....................130Hz to 493.88Hz
Contralto...............130.81Hz to 698.46Hz
Soprano............... 246.94Hz to 1,174.70Hz

As you can see all voices except the soprano can extend below 150Hz. Wether you hear the voices or not coming out of the subwoofer is a function of the crossover to the subwoofer and at what frequency it is set. If the crossover is set lower than 87Hz you would not hear voices come from the subs and if it was set higher you would start hearing them again. I hope this helps.
 
Huh dam kids !

Did you get the brand of the subwoofer they using ??
i have an old, old pioneer IMPP 10inch hooked ot my pc using a 150 watt rms amp and a 24 db linkwitz-riley 35Hz Fc x-over !
Mother god ! the sound is so good it will whip the most expensive audio systems i came across !

well playing games using a sub with words coming from the sub sounds very bad!That is if are aware of the bad sound.

Cheers !
 
In serious audio the subwoofer response will be in the 20-80 HZ region. No subwoofer system worth its weight will be above 80HZ.
It isn't done in good theatre systems or in commercial systems.
I know because I do this for a living.

It sounds like the car stereo buffs got just what they paid for from the typical car stereo shop. They seem to associate the term bass with anything up to and including 250hz or higher. If there is a passive (inductor) installed it is of the wrong value. Keep in mind this will roll off the frequency at 6db per oct where as a good electronic crossover will roll off at 24db per oct or higher.

The fact is this.... most typical car installations are done by the uneducated self taught wanabee's.

When a professional job is done the result will be totally different but then again I personally see absolutely no need for car stereo in the first place and feel it should be totally outlawed.
 
Phase Accurate is totally correct. Some of you guys talk as if the subwoofer crossover is a brick wall, with nothing over 80 or 100 or whatever making it through. Anyone who has played with crossovers on a sub knows that depending on the slope, you WILL get some slight vocal output. For example, when I crossed at 80hz, 3rd order, I could still hear the lowest parts of the male voice through the sub. I had to go either 5th order at 50hz to make these bits inaudible. Incidentally, this really cleared up the sound noticeably.

As for your 16 year old friends, let them enjoy their setup, if they are happy that it 'hits hard' and can be showed off to their friends, more power to them. Most kids at that age just want something that will 'sound cool' to their friends.
 
burnedfingers said:
In serious audio the subwoofer response will be in the 20-80 HZ region. No subwoofer system worth its weight will be above 80HZ.
It isn't done in good theatre systems or in commercial systems.
I know because I do this for a living.

The crossover frequency of a subwoofer is highly system dependant. Also, even high order electronic crossovers will allow enough higher frequency information through so that vocals are intelligible.

Scott
 
tjpries said:
I have a couple of friends, aged 16, they seem to know everything about stereos and subs. I think they dont. THey paid a stereo shop to install subs, words are coming out of these subs, I tell them they are not hooked up properly because words are on a different frequency than the sub freq. They argue with me and being 16 they know everything. I tell them the subs sound bad with words coming out of them, they say it sounds great and there would be no difference if the words weren't coming thru the subs. Can any one explain to me- to help explain to them that words coming out of the subs is wrong? This should be easy for all of you that know there subs. Thanks


Do the vocals sound muffled, like there is a pillow in front of them? Or do they sound, bright, edgy, honky? (For lack of a better term.) If they are muffled, the crossover is probably working just fine-see my previous post.
 
Quote:

Phase Accurate is totally correct. Some of you guys talk as if the subwoofer crossover is a brick wall, with nothing over 80 or 100 or whatever making it through.

You have a misunderstanding here. When the signal is crossed at 80HZ this doesn't mean the signal will stop at 80HZ. If using a 24 db per oct filter the signal will be down 24db at one oct lower than what the filter is set for. Yes, you will hear slight vocal information. This will still beat the crap out of a 6db per oct passive inductor or a cheap 12db or 18db filter.

It is still totally unnecessary to cross a system over at anything above 80HZ unless you are working with junk.
 
Male Voice

Type of voice..............Frequency range
------------------------------------------------
Bass .....................87.31Hz to 349.23Hz

Just to chime in. I have seen this figure quoted quite often and I wanted to point out that in fact the Bass voice goes significantly lower (nearly 1/2 an octave) than this on a regular basis. I personally am quite comfortable down to 70Hz or so and can get below 65Hz on a good day (no I have never been accused of being a Tenor ;)). I have heard several basses that could easily go even lower.

So (as others have intimated) the important thing seems to be that the sub is substantially down before the frequencies become directional. I would imagine that speaking voices would be rather less evident in the sub as most of us (Barry White excepted) don't speak as far down as we sing.

mike

P.S. Hearing a top notch Soprano nail 1174Hz is a truely inspirational experience. :)
P.P.S. If I tried to hit 349Hz I would have to be hospitalized. :bigeyes:
 
Those kids are crazy

morbo said:
I had to go either 5th order at 50hz to make these bits inaudible. Incidentally, this really cleared up the sound noticeably.

I have made my sub with a variable 2nd order filter, from 20 to ~110Hz.
Then I have another (fixed) 2nd order filter at 200Hz.
After lots of fine-tuning this worked the best for me.
There's more dynamics with the second filter crossing a little higher, and it integrates very well with my Epos speakers (sub crossing at 50~55Hz).
I also have phase inversion and it makes a lot of difference. One setting is bad, the other one is TIGHT bass. A phase switch is mandatory.
I've also tested other speakers with the sub and yes, the sub can be used with almost everything, it integrates very well.
I can't hear any voices from the sub.
Maybe with the sub playing alone (no speakers) and craking up the volume there's a very very low, faint voice, but that's normal.

What's not normal was a twilight zone experience I had some years ago.
I visited a friend, he had one of those nasty all-in-one AV packages from Sony, with tiny square speakers+sub.
He put some music and the voice came from the floor.:devily:
Ghosts in the house?! :yikes:
The junk little sattelites can't produce all the midband, let alone any bass. This is crossed very high, and you locate the sub (and the voices) very easily, coming from the floor.

Sincerely, I prefer the sound of the portable radio on my bathroom.
 
The vocals that are coming out of the subs sounds like mid-range, fairly crisp and very clear. It is all vocals, doesnt matter if it is female or male. But it looks like I dont know as much as I thought I did. SO I understand some of you say vocals out of the subs is ok? Thanks for clearing up this issue.
 
It sounds to me like your mate has got a sub with a cheap passive filter/crossover inside, causing the mid to be rolled off very slowly. This is poor implementation for a number of reasons.

Vocals out of a sub is NOT right. However, there can be some amount of bleed through. What you are describing sounds like more than just a bit of bleed through, though.
 
Even when crossed at 80HZ with a 24db per oct crossover there will be some very small vocal a very slight one if your head is right next to the sub. Crossing at 80hz is done to elliminate the directionability and the duplication of bass material. In the true meaning of using a sub the main speakers should have a 80hz crossover used with them to kick everything below 80 hz to the curb. A sub is used to bring out the very low bass not material in the 300hz region. This is my main complaint with car stereo. Most car stereo has a lot of so called bass material above 80hz, mainly in the 150-300 hz region feeding the subs. The general public seems to accept this as the normal relm of the bass responce. It is not however.

Sometimes we wonder why there are Sony, Bose, JBL, and other (cube) systems out there. The reason is because it will sell to the uninformed public that will accept compromises in performance.

If you are happy will your ill performing equipment then my hat is off to you. Be happy, shut up and don't try to convence others that what you have is correct.
 
burnedfingers said:


If you are happy will your ill performing equipment then my hat is off to you. Be happy, shut up and don't try to convence others that what you have is correct.


Dude ! You are one angry man, and your opinion is noted but you are also not correct. No one in here is correct. Its all opinions and perception. We can all 'see' a building but none of us percieve it the same way. We all 'hear' things but again none of us percieve it the same way. So hold back on the telling people to shut up thing unless god promoted you to 'head of all things intelligent'.
 
I am cool :D i just have to speak when spoken to even indirectly. I hate the 'shut up' phrase. 100 % of communication is to make people understand what you are thinking. If they dont get it its not because they are stupid, its because it dosent fit in their perception of reality. SO in order to make them understand you have to enter or look into their world. Failure to understand is not the recipients fault its the failure of the narrator to explain himself correctly to that person.

My point is 'burnedfingers' you might be correct to you but that does not make you correct to everyone else. All telling someone to shut up is going to do is make your argument weaker. Cool ? :cool:
 
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