Looks good, I'll have to give it a try. I think I've decided that I'll finish the boxes using a heavy black laminate. It may be tougher to cut, but its a lot more forgiving and requires a lot less surface prep. Plus, the black gloss look will match my mains and surrounds. There is still some arguing between the parents as to whether or not there will be a dual driver single sub, or two, single driver stereo subs. Either way, I will probably house the amps separately, since it will be easier to make a short, single y-cable for the LFE output, and just use different speaker cable lengths when positioning the sub(s). Once the parents decide on the cabinet size, I'll order the amps, drivers and terminals, and work on gathering the materials for and start making the cabinets in the meanwhile. Once again, I'd like to thank everyone for all their help and advice during these planning stages. I'll report back once the construction process has begun, and if I feel motivated enough, I'll post the project online.
Regards
-Bryan
Regards
-Bryan
Boy, you'd be amazed how fast things can change. After some persuading of the parents and a look at our funding, I've convinced him to drop the MDF cabinet, and our project has turned into a Shiva/Sonotube subwoofer. All parts have been ordered, and the driver should be here by next monday, because its on backorder. Unfortunately, their AVA250 amplifier is on backorder for over a MONTH!!! (I can't wait THAT long, school starts Thursday!) So, that is currently the only obstacle in the way of completion for the project. Now, I need some more suggestions.
Back to the topic of amps. Does anyone know where I can get a good plate amp between 250-300 watts into 4 ohms for $200 or less? The 250 watt amp at PE looks very good for only $129, but will require me to disable the bass boost. If I go with this amp, will it be possible for me to disable the bass boost without changing resistor values? Thanks a bunch
-Bryan
Back to the topic of amps. Does anyone know where I can get a good plate amp between 250-300 watts into 4 ohms for $200 or less? The 250 watt amp at PE looks very good for only $129, but will require me to disable the bass boost. If I go with this amp, will it be possible for me to disable the bass boost without changing resistor values? Thanks a bunch
-Bryan
Success!
Once the parents were off to work this morning, I got out of bed and rushed downstairs...
First and foremost, I'd like to commend the staff at Adire Audio. When both of my parts were on backorder (driver and amplifier), they not only e-mailed me and notified when it would come in, but when it did, they shipped it same day, and upgraded to next day air shipping for free. Now, down to the dirty business...
I dont have the enclosure for the amp built yet, so I'm just doing a test run from the cardboard box
I also have to glue and seal the baffle to the sonotube, and add the legs to keep it off the ground. I currently have it tipped on its side as not to block the port tube, and slightly propped up. And quite frankly, I'm scared to death...
NEVER, in ANY commercial sub, have I ever seen a driver move like that! Just watching the cone move is better than going to the movies!
So, how does it sound? Well, its not even finished, and I just made a few hasty adjustment to the crossover, and it is pounding out the notes to Dido's "No Angel" better than any other sub I've ever heard, including anything I'd ever heard from the lineup of REL's we'd considered buying before the DIY route. Theres not even a hint of boom, and I have the level turned past the halfway mark on the AVA-250 amp. Just by listening, I'd say this thing extends easily down to 16 hz. I never expected it to sound this great. Well, I'd better go now, the tube in my PC monitor appears to have shifted, and it needs to be degaussed.
(By the way, when track 6 came on, I thought the house was going give way)
Once the parents were off to work this morning, I got out of bed and rushed downstairs...
First and foremost, I'd like to commend the staff at Adire Audio. When both of my parts were on backorder (driver and amplifier), they not only e-mailed me and notified when it would come in, but when it did, they shipped it same day, and upgraded to next day air shipping for free. Now, down to the dirty business...
I dont have the enclosure for the amp built yet, so I'm just doing a test run from the cardboard box
I also have to glue and seal the baffle to the sonotube, and add the legs to keep it off the ground. I currently have it tipped on its side as not to block the port tube, and slightly propped up. And quite frankly, I'm scared to death...NEVER, in ANY commercial sub, have I ever seen a driver move like that! Just watching the cone move is better than going to the movies!
So, how does it sound? Well, its not even finished, and I just made a few hasty adjustment to the crossover, and it is pounding out the notes to Dido's "No Angel" better than any other sub I've ever heard, including anything I'd ever heard from the lineup of REL's we'd considered buying before the DIY route. Theres not even a hint of boom, and I have the level turned past the halfway mark on the AVA-250 amp. Just by listening, I'd say this thing extends easily down to 16 hz. I never expected it to sound this great. Well, I'd better go now, the tube in my PC monitor appears to have shifted, and it needs to be degaussed
.(By the way, when track 6 came on, I thought the house was going give way)
Pass DIY Addict
Joined 2000
Paid Member
Eric:
I used a 16" wide, 43" high sonotube, with a 20" long 4" diameter port made of PVC. This gives me 133 L enclosure volume, with a 16.9Hz tune and -3db point of 21.85Hz. Factoring room gain, I can go a bit lower, with a -3db around 20 hz, if not lower. The sonotube is 1/4 thick, I believe. The dual voice coils of the driver are run in parallel, with the Adire Audio AVA-250 amp driving it. Both the driver and the amp seem to be of very high quality. The amp has a clean solder job, parts are secured down with damping material, and all the parts have a solid feel to them.
Each endcap is doubled up 3/4 MDF, held together with "rue glue". This stuff was given to me by a nearby cabinet maker. He showed me what this stuff is capable of. It dries with a slightly rubbery, elastic feel to it, and didn't look like it'd hold up well. He showed me a scrap panel that had been glued together. The two of us tried to pry the panels apart, but to no avail. The glue never gave, but the top few surface layers of the MDF ripped clean off. This stuff WORKS, but is only available to businesses in this area.
The internal wiring I made myself using individually coated teflon wires, and is approximately 12 gauge. Without any padding, the tube rings like a bell. I headed over to a local factory called "Hi-Tek Packaging" whom my father delivers to, and he gave me ample foam to line the interior with. It is extremely dense, but not to thick. The top and bottom were lined with egg crate foam, but the tube itself was lined with this other type of foam, that had a slightly wavy texture to it, so that it was better at diffusing waves than a smooth surface, but would still follow the contour of the tube easily.
Unfortunately, almost ALL of this projects time went into the finish work. I wanted a gloss black finish on the endpieces to match my Mirage OM-10's, and I had done it before to other speakers... using Krylon spraypaint. However, using Rustoleum this time turned out to be a HUGE mistake. The primer and first layer of gloss came out perfect, but about 8 days later, when I went to apply the next coat, it alligatored! I tried this using the Krylon paint on a scrap piece, and nothing happened. It was perfect. So, after some hard prep work and over a week of finishing, I stripped it down to the bare MDF, and re-did the finish using Krylon. Perfect. I then wrapped the tube in black grill cloth. The final product looks as though it came from the Mirage lineup!
Unfortunately, I don't have the test equipment to get the actual specs for it, but I think my neighbor may have some I can borrow. I'd like to thank my neighbor Bill a lot for all of his time and effort into helping me with this project. He gave up a few hours of his time to help me cut the tube and route out the MDF, and this is greatly appreciated of him. I'd like to thank my father too, for the countless trips to Home Depot for me
By the way, I wouldn't suggest this for use in a small listening room, not only for its large appearance, but because of its sheer destructive force. I've already damaged one picture frame due to its falling off the wall...
If anyone has any more questions regarding this, feel free to ask.
I used a 16" wide, 43" high sonotube, with a 20" long 4" diameter port made of PVC. This gives me 133 L enclosure volume, with a 16.9Hz tune and -3db point of 21.85Hz. Factoring room gain, I can go a bit lower, with a -3db around 20 hz, if not lower. The sonotube is 1/4 thick, I believe. The dual voice coils of the driver are run in parallel, with the Adire Audio AVA-250 amp driving it. Both the driver and the amp seem to be of very high quality. The amp has a clean solder job, parts are secured down with damping material, and all the parts have a solid feel to them.
Each endcap is doubled up 3/4 MDF, held together with "rue glue". This stuff was given to me by a nearby cabinet maker. He showed me what this stuff is capable of. It dries with a slightly rubbery, elastic feel to it, and didn't look like it'd hold up well. He showed me a scrap panel that had been glued together. The two of us tried to pry the panels apart, but to no avail. The glue never gave, but the top few surface layers of the MDF ripped clean off. This stuff WORKS, but is only available to businesses in this area.
The internal wiring I made myself using individually coated teflon wires, and is approximately 12 gauge. Without any padding, the tube rings like a bell. I headed over to a local factory called "Hi-Tek Packaging" whom my father delivers to, and he gave me ample foam to line the interior with. It is extremely dense, but not to thick. The top and bottom were lined with egg crate foam, but the tube itself was lined with this other type of foam, that had a slightly wavy texture to it, so that it was better at diffusing waves than a smooth surface, but would still follow the contour of the tube easily.
Unfortunately, almost ALL of this projects time went into the finish work. I wanted a gloss black finish on the endpieces to match my Mirage OM-10's, and I had done it before to other speakers... using Krylon spraypaint. However, using Rustoleum this time turned out to be a HUGE mistake. The primer and first layer of gloss came out perfect, but about 8 days later, when I went to apply the next coat, it alligatored! I tried this using the Krylon paint on a scrap piece, and nothing happened. It was perfect. So, after some hard prep work and over a week of finishing, I stripped it down to the bare MDF, and re-did the finish using Krylon. Perfect. I then wrapped the tube in black grill cloth. The final product looks as though it came from the Mirage lineup!
Unfortunately, I don't have the test equipment to get the actual specs for it, but I think my neighbor may have some I can borrow. I'd like to thank my neighbor Bill a lot for all of his time and effort into helping me with this project. He gave up a few hours of his time to help me cut the tube and route out the MDF, and this is greatly appreciated of him. I'd like to thank my father too, for the countless trips to Home Depot for me
By the way, I wouldn't suggest this for use in a small listening room, not only for its large appearance, but because of its sheer destructive force. I've already damaged one picture frame due to its falling off the wall...
If anyone has any more questions regarding this, feel free to ask.
Pass DIY Addict
Joined 2000
Paid Member
Yea, I was hoping I'd say it was for school too...
Although I HAVE brought the audio world into my school. I explained to my Cisco teacher the concepts of CAT-5 speaker cable, and he's amazed by it. Unfortunately, I just finished my prototype cables, (About 9 gauge) and my Denon amp can't handle the capacitance levels! Once I turned the volume up, the protection circuit kicked in, and the amp shut down. Its a shame too, at the lower volume levels, I can easily say that they were the best cables I'd ever had in my system. The midrange that I thought my speakers lacked were there after all! Hopefully when the Meridians come they'll be able to handle the load...
Although I HAVE brought the audio world into my school. I explained to my Cisco teacher the concepts of CAT-5 speaker cable, and he's amazed by it. Unfortunately, I just finished my prototype cables, (About 9 gauge) and my Denon amp can't handle the capacitance levels!
Once I turned the volume up, the protection circuit kicked in, and the amp shut down. Its a shame too, at the lower volume levels, I can easily say that they were the best cables I'd ever had in my system. The midrange that I thought my speakers lacked were there after all! Hopefully when the Meridians come they'll be able to handle the load...Master Po: Ahh, Grasshopper, when you can snatch the capacitor from my hand...you will have learned.
Ahem.
Sorry. That was paraphrased from a TV show way back when.
Amplifiers vary in their ability to handle reactive loads. Once upon a time, Polk came out with some cables that tended to cause certain amplifiers to emit smoke, make gargling noises, and roll over with all four paws in the air. They were, needless to say, braided cables. I watched all this and shook my head. There's no reason to put up with that much capacitance (or inductance, for that matter) in a cable. A cable with that much reactance in it is breaking the basic rule that a cable should be an invisible conductor. Any deviation from that...well there's a technical term for that kind of device:
Tone controls.
If it makes your speakers sound better, then consider carefully what the differences are, and seek speakers that sound that way, rather than use the cables to alter the tonal balance of your speakers.
Confucious: A journey of a thousand miles begins with but a single step.
Obi Wan: Congratulations, you've just taken your first step into a wider world.
...and the cloaked one turned from the door, pulled up his hood against the chill of the night air, and silently passed into the darkness...
Grey
Ahem.
Sorry. That was paraphrased from a TV show way back when.
Amplifiers vary in their ability to handle reactive loads. Once upon a time, Polk came out with some cables that tended to cause certain amplifiers to emit smoke, make gargling noises, and roll over with all four paws in the air. They were, needless to say, braided cables. I watched all this and shook my head. There's no reason to put up with that much capacitance (or inductance, for that matter) in a cable. A cable with that much reactance in it is breaking the basic rule that a cable should be an invisible conductor. Any deviation from that...well there's a technical term for that kind of device:
Tone controls.
If it makes your speakers sound better, then consider carefully what the differences are, and seek speakers that sound that way, rather than use the cables to alter the tonal balance of your speakers.
Confucious: A journey of a thousand miles begins with but a single step.
Obi Wan: Congratulations, you've just taken your first step into a wider world.
...and the cloaked one turned from the door, pulled up his hood against the chill of the night air, and silently passed into the darkness...
Grey
"Master", a small voice cries out from a distance, "You know so much of your student, but your students know so little of you. What cables, amps, and speakers do you use for faithful reproduction of the musical force? Do you follow a simplistic journey, or is it comprised of snake oil, fairy dust, voltage regulators, and too much silver to account for?..."
...It is too late for me, my son...
Darth Vader
Aye, well, snake oil, of course, and far, far too many pieces of silver over the years. (Man, I wish I had some of that money back...)
I don't think Jason had instituted the Intro part of the forums when I joined up, and I never got around to doing the deed afterwards. There is some stuff in the little Profile dingus.
As for my system, it's both simple and complicated. I've long believed that simple circuits are more likely to deliver good sound (after a rather substantial, lengthy, and expensive foray into complicated circuits, getting further and further from what I heard at the concert hall, but I--finally--learned that numbers don't count for much), so the individual units tend to be fairly straight forward, but there are so *many* of the little critters that the sum of them all gets a little crazy.
For the front end and electronics, try the Class A, AB or what thread about half way down the page: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=22&pagenumber=5
Speakers were detailed in the 5W Zen for biamp tweeter thread:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=155
Since then the water-cooled Aleph 2s have come online (another pair nearly ready), which currently leaves my tube amp pushing the tweeters, Aleph 2 on the mids, Threshold S-500 on woofer panels, and another Threshold S-500 on the subs.
I've got a tube phono stage in the works; spent this weekend assembling two voltage regulators to go with that. The SOZ w/embellishments that I'm reporting on in a dedicated thread elsewhere on this site. Amps and sundry support things to incorporate the subwoofer drivers within the feedback loop. Several possibilities for a new line stage. And, as if that wasn't enough to keep a fellow busy, I've got a number of things I want to do, speaker-wise--not for the big system, but to use up some nice drivers I've got lying around, and possibly test some whacky ideas I've had over the years.
In addition, I try to find time to write stories, go to work, and sleep, perchance to dream...
Grey
Darth Vader
Aye, well, snake oil, of course, and far, far too many pieces of silver over the years. (Man, I wish I had some of that money back...)
I don't think Jason had instituted the Intro part of the forums when I joined up, and I never got around to doing the deed afterwards. There is some stuff in the little Profile dingus.
As for my system, it's both simple and complicated. I've long believed that simple circuits are more likely to deliver good sound (after a rather substantial, lengthy, and expensive foray into complicated circuits, getting further and further from what I heard at the concert hall, but I--finally--learned that numbers don't count for much), so the individual units tend to be fairly straight forward, but there are so *many* of the little critters that the sum of them all gets a little crazy.
For the front end and electronics, try the Class A, AB or what thread about half way down the page: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=22&pagenumber=5
Speakers were detailed in the 5W Zen for biamp tweeter thread:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=155
Since then the water-cooled Aleph 2s have come online (another pair nearly ready), which currently leaves my tube amp pushing the tweeters, Aleph 2 on the mids, Threshold S-500 on woofer panels, and another Threshold S-500 on the subs.
I've got a tube phono stage in the works; spent this weekend assembling two voltage regulators to go with that. The SOZ w/embellishments that I'm reporting on in a dedicated thread elsewhere on this site. Amps and sundry support things to incorporate the subwoofer drivers within the feedback loop. Several possibilities for a new line stage. And, as if that wasn't enough to keep a fellow busy, I've got a number of things I want to do, speaker-wise--not for the big system, but to use up some nice drivers I've got lying around, and possibly test some whacky ideas I've had over the years.
In addition, I try to find time to write stories, go to work, and sleep, perchance to dream...
Grey
12, 12" drivers... all I have to say about that is... I love it . But I was having trouble convincing the parents with a single sub. Now what are they going to think?! (On a positive note, my father who doubted my subwoofer building capabilites is now eating his words. The rocket launcher scene in "Ronin" awoke him from a sound sleep...)
As for the quad-amping, well, the best I can get away with right now is bi-amping, and I'll have to see how that goes. Depending on how these Meridian monoblocks turn out, I may be able to scale down my "need" for a 30 watt SOZ, which would likely have the designation driving the tweets.
But now, its time for more questions. It's just dawned on me, that when the monoblocks arrive, I will be in need of a Y-cable, since my preamp only has a single set of RCA outputs, which is currently being occupied by the subwoofer. Any suggestions as to how I should construct it? Should there be any problems if I connect 2 conductors instead of 1 to the ground and center pin of the RCA plug? Thanks again.
(I'm thinking of a multi-strand braid using individually insulated, teflon-coated copper wires of approximately 24 ga each, similar to some Kimber interconnects)
[Edited by Super on 09-30-2001 at 09:12 PM]
. But I was having trouble convincing the parents with a single sub. Now what are they going to think?! (On a positive note, my father who doubted my subwoofer building capabilites is now eating his words. The rocket launcher scene in "Ronin" awoke him from a sound sleep...)As for the quad-amping, well, the best I can get away with right now is bi-amping, and I'll have to see how that goes. Depending on how these Meridian monoblocks turn out, I may be able to scale down my "need" for a 30 watt SOZ, which would likely have the designation driving the tweets.
But now, its time for more questions. It's just dawned on me, that when the monoblocks arrive, I will be in need of a Y-cable, since my preamp only has a single set of RCA outputs, which is currently being occupied by the subwoofer. Any suggestions as to how I should construct it? Should there be any problems if I connect 2 conductors instead of 1 to the ground and center pin of the RCA plug? Thanks again.
(I'm thinking of a multi-strand braid using individually insulated, teflon-coated copper wires of approximately 24 ga each, similar to some Kimber interconnects)
[Edited by Super on 09-30-2001 at 09:12 PM]
Paul,
Yes, but the question is: To the Light side or the Dark side?
I see my function as being to feed dreams. In the process of bringing dreams to fruition, learning will occur, whether desired or not.
Acquisition of knowledge is a noble thing.
(And if I can make folks giggle once in a long while, that's no bad thing...especially in these trying times.)
Bryan,
Of a certainty, you can use Y cables, but...
Consider the input impedance of the two amps in question. That input impedance will be in parallel, hence lowering the load seen at the output jacks. Some preamp sections may grow weak in the knees upon seeing such a low impedance. Others will laugh and drive it easily.
Let's assume for the nonce that you'll be able to use a Y cable. Let me know if it clips. (Yes, preamps can clip.) Should that happen, we'll go into cathode/source/emitter followers in order to put some muscle into the thing. (Or you can start working on your Dad for funds for a new preamp project, and we'll just keep this little conversation our secret, okay?) As for the mechanics--yes, two hots to the center and two shields to ground.
This is, in part, why I grafted the input network from the Volksamps onto the Aleph 2s I built. No, I'm not running a Y coming out of the back of my crossover, but you never know what will happen in the future and it's a booger to retrofit something like that down the road.
And...yes...twelve 12" drivers can move air in a manner wonderful to behold. There's a record of organ music where the organist holds a low pedal note. That alone is enough to produce religious ecstacies in some. However, the note travels the length of the cathedral, reflects, comes back to the microphone position in proper phase to augment the original note. Okay, we are now approaching orgiastic levels of pleasure, but we're not done yet. The microphone they chose was possessed of a bump in the response right in that same frequency range. All this is gleefully noted in the liner notes for the album, as they discovered it after the fact, and decided to leave it as a delight for those who have sufficient low frequency capability to display it to best effect.
All I can say is...it's a good way to remove dust from your speaker cones.
Grey
[Edited by GRollins on 09-30-2001 at 10:21 PM]
Yes, but the question is: To the Light side or the Dark side?
I see my function as being to feed dreams. In the process of bringing dreams to fruition, learning will occur, whether desired or not.
Acquisition of knowledge is a noble thing.
(And if I can make folks giggle once in a long while, that's no bad thing...especially in these trying times.)
Bryan,
Of a certainty, you can use Y cables, but...
Consider the input impedance of the two amps in question. That input impedance will be in parallel, hence lowering the load seen at the output jacks. Some preamp sections may grow weak in the knees upon seeing such a low impedance. Others will laugh and drive it easily.
Let's assume for the nonce that you'll be able to use a Y cable. Let me know if it clips. (Yes, preamps can clip.) Should that happen, we'll go into cathode/source/emitter followers in order to put some muscle into the thing. (Or you can start working on your Dad for funds for a new preamp project, and we'll just keep this little conversation our secret, okay?) As for the mechanics--yes, two hots to the center and two shields to ground.
This is, in part, why I grafted the input network from the Volksamps onto the Aleph 2s I built. No, I'm not running a Y coming out of the back of my crossover, but you never know what will happen in the future and it's a booger to retrofit something like that down the road.
And...yes...twelve 12" drivers can move air in a manner wonderful to behold. There's a record of organ music where the organist holds a low pedal note. That alone is enough to produce religious ecstacies in some. However, the note travels the length of the cathedral, reflects, comes back to the microphone position in proper phase to augment the original note. Okay, we are now approaching orgiastic levels of pleasure, but we're not done yet. The microphone they chose was possessed of a bump in the response right in that same frequency range. All this is gleefully noted in the liner notes for the album, as they discovered it after the fact, and decided to leave it as a delight for those who have sufficient low frequency capability to display it to best effect.
All I can say is...it's a good way to remove dust from your speaker cones.
Grey
[Edited by GRollins on 09-30-2001 at 10:21 PM]
Paul,
I've been writing science fiction for over ten years now. My first story saw print back in '89, I think, and I'm up around 30 stories or so. I write under my own name--I get addled enough trying to remember all my user IDs and such for work, so the last thing I need is yet another name to keep up with. So far I've written shorts, novelettes, and novellas, as that's what fits best into my schedule. Recently, I've begun making an effort to broaden out from science fiction; I had an article on how to brew mead in the December 2000 issue of Bee Culture. Recently, I've been spending so much time on electronics and prattling on and on about same on a certain DIY site (ahem) that it pretty much keeps the fiction aspect of my life at bay. I need to take some time and finish a few stories so as to make some spare change. Perhaps I can figure out an angle where audio would fit into a story...
Grey
P.S.: You lost me on the MTFBWY. When I first glanced at it, I thought you'd meant Mean Time Between Failure, and took it to mean that you were anticipating a breakdown of some sort. Sorry, I haven't kept up with all the acronyms. It's as much as I can do to write longhand.
[Edited by GRollins on 10-05-2001 at 12:31 AM]
I've been writing science fiction for over ten years now. My first story saw print back in '89, I think, and I'm up around 30 stories or so. I write under my own name--I get addled enough trying to remember all my user IDs and such for work, so the last thing I need is yet another name to keep up with. So far I've written shorts, novelettes, and novellas, as that's what fits best into my schedule. Recently, I've begun making an effort to broaden out from science fiction; I had an article on how to brew mead in the December 2000 issue of Bee Culture. Recently, I've been spending so much time on electronics and prattling on and on about same on a certain DIY site (ahem) that it pretty much keeps the fiction aspect of my life at bay. I need to take some time and finish a few stories so as to make some spare change. Perhaps I can figure out an angle where audio would fit into a story...
Grey
P.S.: You lost me on the MTFBWY. When I first glanced at it, I thought you'd meant Mean Time Between Failure, and took it to mean that you were anticipating a breakdown of some sort. Sorry, I haven't kept up with all the acronyms. It's as much as I can do to write longhand.
[Edited by GRollins on 10-05-2001 at 12:31 AM]
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