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Old 4th March 2005, 05:10 AM   #1
danvan is offline danvan  United States
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Default Bandpass Home Sub

Hey guys, I've looked all over the web pretty extensively and haven't found my answers yet, so I figure giving the pros a shot'll be worth the effort...

I'm needing to upgrade from my old Adire Rava sub to something that will actually bring down my apartment building, instead of just shaking the crap out of it. I'd like to employ the Tumult, as I really like the Rava and the Adire people, but to get the output that I really want means I can't go sealed. I've never liked ported subs and IB is out of the question (apartment and all) so I'm left with a bandpass design. Here's my problem, I haven't found any solid data on designing a box that will actually provide a near-flat response and avoid the typical one-note bass out of such boxes. Any help would be appreciated, and I will certainly take any other suggestions to heart, my budget is in the area of $700 USD for the sub alone, probably just get a cheap Nady amp or something to power it until I can afford better.

By the way, this will be used with a pair of Wayne J's Eros that I built a few months ago, along with some old Sony ES speakers for multichannel that I desperately need to upgrade. The sub will be used for both music and movies...so I hope this works out. Thanks for your help guys.
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Old 4th March 2005, 07:01 AM   #2
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Forget about it.

The only performance advantage of the bandpass is the ability to trade gain for bandwidth. The more gain, which appears to be what you are ultimately after, the narrower the bandwidth and the more "one note" it becomes.

Whatever it is that you don't like about ported woofers will haunt you in spades with the bandpass.
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Old 4th March 2005, 11:11 AM   #3
simon5 is offline simon5  Canada
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A Tumult is a good idea, but don't forget that dual Ascendant Audio Avalanche 15 will beat the Tumult easily for only 100$ more, or a single Avalanche 15 will come quite close for 200$ less.

Then, if you hate ported boxes, you'll hate even more bandpass boxes. Did you heard well built ported boxes with flat FR and no vent noise?
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Old 4th March 2005, 11:24 AM   #4
BAM is offline BAM
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Best the Tumult? I don't know. Can you give me a link to this driver so I can check this claim out? I didn't know Ascendant Audio made anything big enough to out-do the Tumult driver.
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Old 4th March 2005, 12:48 PM   #5
simon5 is offline simon5  Canada
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Here's the link...

http://www.ascendantaudio.com/Avalanche%2015.htm

I said a pair of Avalanche 15 would be better than a single Tumult for only 100$ more because :

Fs is lower (15.6 Hz vs 19 Hz)
Le is lower (2.4 mH vs 4.2 mH)
Efficiency is slightly better (87.5 dB vs 87.1 dB)
Xmax is slightly less for the Avalanche at 27mm versus 34mm
If you model them, the size of the box is very slightly larger for the Avalanche, but it's 200$ cheaper.

So a pair of these would beat the displacement of the Tumult, with 8.08 liters versus 5.09 liters linear displacement, for only 100$ more. That's about 59% more displacement with only being 20% more expensive than a single Tumult.
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Old 4th March 2005, 02:22 PM   #6
SimontY is offline SimontY  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally posted by simon5
So a pair of these would beat the displacement of the Tumult, with 8.08 liters versus 5.09 liters linear displacement, for only 100$ more. That's about 59% more displacement with only being 20% more expensive than a single Tumult.
You make a good argument... and wouldn't two of those sound totally better too? Less thermal compression, potential for cancellation of room modes, stereo low-bass, or one box with push-push for force cancellation...
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Old 4th March 2005, 04:50 PM   #7
danvan is offline danvan  United States
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So basically a pair of avalanches in a (properly built) ported box would be a better use of my money then? Basically the only reason I don't care for ported boxes is because a number of friends have built some before, and they never seem to sound right to me. Always too bassy and the port itself is noisy.
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Old 4th March 2005, 06:39 PM   #8
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I'm a tumult owner myself.... and I suppose two avalanche 15's wouldnt have been a bad way to go. But the Tumult is a very nice driver, and I'm not a bit dissatisfied.

I'm running my tumult in 6cubic feet tuned to 10hz and honestly you probably wouldnt tell a big difference between that and a sealed enclosure. Except in the infrasonics of course
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Old 4th March 2005, 08:32 PM   #9
simon5 is offline simon5  Canada
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Quote:
Originally posted by danvan
So basically a pair of avalanches in a (properly built) ported box would be a better use of my money then? Basically the only reason I don't care for ported boxes is because a number of friends have built some before, and they never seem to sound right to me. Always too bassy and the port itself is noisy.
Yes, a well built ported box would be a better use of your money especially if you want to bring the building down. I must say that you have a very comprehensive neighborhood...

If well built, you'll have zero port noise.
If well built, we include a theorical room gain curve in the design, so the subwoofer have a shallow rolloff outdoors, so indoors it's not too bassy, it's flat down to as low as you want to.
They will sound right because they will be tuned low, so group delay is out of the picture also.

If you're looking at SPL at 30 Hz and more, you could build 2-3 Tempest Bass Horn for insane SPL, but not much response under 25 Hz.
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Old 4th March 2005, 08:39 PM   #10
jleaman is offline jleaman  Belgium
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What was it that you dont like about ported boxes what it the port noise ? Maybe it was the box you had that did this if the port is to close to the rear chamber wall it will make lots of noise or if the port is to small it will do the same. I had a 10" sub in a band pass box with 3 x 3" ports at 9" long and i also had a sealed and ported 15" sub the truth the 10" bandpass KILLED it in spl and quality of sound..

Jason
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