OK BOYS, Need some expert, detailed, opinionated, critisizing,comparitif INFO,
I just got singed on Adire Audio as a Product for my car audio store.
I am going to build a demo vehicle, with 2 15" Brahma's,
I am going to Recomend the tempest to at least half a douzen regulars.
Questions
1. What kind of spl are we talkin about for 2 brahma's in an suv with 800 watts into them.
2. Is the tempest considered a pretty phenominal woofer. What can if be compared to in say --Kicker--JlAudio--Audiobahn-- "all brands i sell"
3. Is this as good as it gets for bang for the buck.? adire audio looks appealing in this area. anyones oppinion.
4. TELL ME WHERE THIS COMPANY STANDS IN ALL PERSPECTIVES, is this Some of the best stuff in the world. if not. what is. (still considering what it costs) (because its darn cheap)
5. What kind of spl can be achieved wiht a tempest. like max spl in a ported box.
Thanks so much, if you can answer them all take a shot at one at least.
jaden
I just got singed on Adire Audio as a Product for my car audio store.
I am going to build a demo vehicle, with 2 15" Brahma's,
I am going to Recomend the tempest to at least half a douzen regulars.
Questions
1. What kind of spl are we talkin about for 2 brahma's in an suv with 800 watts into them.
2. Is the tempest considered a pretty phenominal woofer. What can if be compared to in say --Kicker--JlAudio--Audiobahn-- "all brands i sell"
3. Is this as good as it gets for bang for the buck.? adire audio looks appealing in this area. anyones oppinion.
4. TELL ME WHERE THIS COMPANY STANDS IN ALL PERSPECTIVES, is this Some of the best stuff in the world. if not. what is. (still considering what it costs) (because its darn cheap)
5. What kind of spl can be achieved wiht a tempest. like max spl in a ported box.
Thanks so much, if you can answer them all take a shot at one at least.
jaden
Well, a little about my perspective of adire...
They have high quality products and good tech support. Being a small company like they are (off the radar so to speak) has its advantages and disadvantages.
For instance, when someone see's a tempest they will wonder what the hell kind of speaker it is(assuming they arent vastly knowledgable about adire's products) and the same holds for a Brahma... and well the tumult, there are absolutely no markings at all spare + -.
But seeing as the product isnt widely available at every best buy, ultimate electronics, or whatever other common electronics stores... you could probably charge a bit more since there isnt competition(except online).
Concering the demo vehicle etc....
2 brahma 15's and only 800watts total, come on man you need like 10000. Just kidding.
I think 800 is a bit weak however. You would probably want AT LEAST 800 per sub to get them to full excursion, but thats neither here nor there. It mostly depends on the alignment, and what the desired SPL is, but 400 apeice will surely be underpowered.
You know what they say about underpowering a sub too. Its almost entirely untrue*, but just ask any car stereo retailer and you should hear that underpowering a speaker can EASILY blow it. To which I say BS, but hey, I guess they can trick most everyone else into spending an extra couple bones for a bigger amp.
As for the tempest and comparing it to a few other common subs.... Well lets take for instance a JL13w7
Using WinISD to compare max SPL graphs with both subs in a 3cubic foot enclosure tuned to 25hz
Remember theser are anechoic simulations, in car SPL will be MUCH higher
Freq JL Tempest
20 109db 106db
25 113db 110db
30 116db 113db
35 118db 116db
Now here's where it gets interesting
40 118db 118db
50 118db 120db
60 118 121db
Now this doesnt seem right.... and thats because it isnt. JL doesnt give an inductance spec for the w7 so the hump in FR cause by that cant be predicted.
Now I would say the w7 likely has a high inductance at least above 4mH, but who's to say for sure. Its a massively overhung design, so just think about that.
I would say w7 and tempest are a pretty close match as far as maximum output goes. of course.... tempest doesnt need quite as much power, and it might not have the cosmetic appeal, but what else would you spend that extra $450 on?
They have high quality products and good tech support. Being a small company like they are (off the radar so to speak) has its advantages and disadvantages.
For instance, when someone see's a tempest they will wonder what the hell kind of speaker it is(assuming they arent vastly knowledgable about adire's products) and the same holds for a Brahma... and well the tumult, there are absolutely no markings at all spare + -.
But seeing as the product isnt widely available at every best buy, ultimate electronics, or whatever other common electronics stores... you could probably charge a bit more since there isnt competition(except online).
Concering the demo vehicle etc....
2 brahma 15's and only 800watts total, come on man you need like 10000. Just kidding.
I think 800 is a bit weak however. You would probably want AT LEAST 800 per sub to get them to full excursion, but thats neither here nor there. It mostly depends on the alignment, and what the desired SPL is, but 400 apeice will surely be underpowered.
You know what they say about underpowering a sub too. Its almost entirely untrue*, but just ask any car stereo retailer and you should hear that underpowering a speaker can EASILY blow it. To which I say BS, but hey, I guess they can trick most everyone else into spending an extra couple bones for a bigger amp.
As for the tempest and comparing it to a few other common subs.... Well lets take for instance a JL13w7
Using WinISD to compare max SPL graphs with both subs in a 3cubic foot enclosure tuned to 25hz
Remember theser are anechoic simulations, in car SPL will be MUCH higher
Freq JL Tempest
20 109db 106db
25 113db 110db
30 116db 113db
35 118db 116db
Now here's where it gets interesting
40 118db 118db
50 118db 120db
60 118 121db
Now this doesnt seem right.... and thats because it isnt. JL doesnt give an inductance spec for the w7 so the hump in FR cause by that cant be predicted.
Now I would say the w7 likely has a high inductance at least above 4mH, but who's to say for sure. Its a massively overhung design, so just think about that.
I would say w7 and tempest are a pretty close match as far as maximum output goes. of course.... tempest doesnt need quite as much power, and it might not have the cosmetic appeal, but what else would you spend that extra $450 on?
the transient part of a square waveform can kill tweeters, but subs and mids, likely not going to happen. If the square wave blows a woofer, its RMS power is either too great, or its frequeny is too low and the woofer dies of mechanical failure. I would call both of those overpowering.
All of this can be avoided simply... if it sounds like Shizzle, turn it down a little
All of this can be avoided simply... if it sounds like Shizzle, turn it down a little
I would say that Adire Audio is better than AudioBahn by a large amount.
Kicker is very good in SPL, but I bet that Adire Audio could beat them easily in SQ and price/performance ratio.
I don't know much about JLAudio so I will not say much. Look at each company flagship... Adire Audio Tumult versus JL Audio 13W7-D1.5
Adire Audio got a better Xmax, better powerhandling, better efficiency, lower Fs, ...
And then the price on the JL Audio is very high.
I guess the Adire Audio stuff is now the best stuff you sell.
Kicker is very good in SPL, but I bet that Adire Audio could beat them easily in SQ and price/performance ratio.
I don't know much about JLAudio so I will not say much. Look at each company flagship... Adire Audio Tumult versus JL Audio 13W7-D1.5
Adire Audio got a better Xmax, better powerhandling, better efficiency, lower Fs, ...
And then the price on the JL Audio is very high.
I guess the Adire Audio stuff is now the best stuff you sell.
Hi,
asking a small power amp to drive too hard will overload it and it will produce an output that is almost a square wave.
The square wave signal contains two times the power of a sine wave. Feed this into a crossover and it will kill the higher range speakers. Try feeding it into a bass or sub and IMO it will kill the bass as well due to overheating of the coil.
asking a small power amp to drive too hard will overload it and it will produce an output that is almost a square wave.
The square wave signal contains two times the power of a sine wave. Feed this into a crossover and it will kill the higher range speakers. Try feeding it into a bass or sub and IMO it will kill the bass as well due to overheating of the coil.
A clipping amp's output looks much more like a square wave than a sine wave, that's for sure. Fourier transform tells us that there is a tremendous amount of high frequency energy in that clipped signal.
Clipping amps will blow tweeters quickly.
Clipping amps are very dangerous for midranges as well.
Clipping amps can be worrisome for bass drivers if the amp was already in the ballpark of the driver's thermal power rating. i.e., a driver with a thermal rating of 500W RMS continuously is in much more danger when driven by a clipping 500 watt amp than when driven by a smoothly operatin 600 watt amp. Just how much more dangerous I'm not exactly sure... I always try to avoid clipping in all situations.
Clipping amps will blow tweeters quickly.
Clipping amps are very dangerous for midranges as well.
Clipping amps can be worrisome for bass drivers if the amp was already in the ballpark of the driver's thermal power rating. i.e., a driver with a thermal rating of 500W RMS continuously is in much more danger when driven by a clipping 500 watt amp than when driven by a smoothly operatin 600 watt amp. Just how much more dangerous I'm not exactly sure... I always try to avoid clipping in all situations.
On the issue of Tumult for car audio.
Both of the following statements are true:
Tumult wasnt designed for car audio
Tumult is actually well suited for the car environment
Tumult was designed for HT use. I believe its makings go back to some forum topic in a HT forum about the ultimate or ideal HT sub.
The goals were, low extension, small box, and high SPL. I'd say they were met pretty well, at the cost of efficency of course.
A tumult in car audio is definately overkill though, at least in the lowest octaves. Put one in a moderate sized sealed box and you're guranteed high SPL even down to say 10hz.
Both of the following statements are true:
Tumult wasnt designed for car audio
Tumult is actually well suited for the car environment
Tumult was designed for HT use. I believe its makings go back to some forum topic in a HT forum about the ultimate or ideal HT sub.
The goals were, low extension, small box, and high SPL. I'd say they were met pretty well, at the cost of efficency of course.
A tumult in car audio is definately overkill though, at least in the lowest octaves. Put one in a moderate sized sealed box and you're guranteed high SPL even down to say 10hz.
I have limited experience in the car audio realm, I've only installed systems in my own (and my girlfriend's) vehicle, but just based on the research I have done for pricing, etc. I can't imagine any car audio specific (JL, Audiobahn, RF, etc.) can come remotely close to comapnies like Adire when it comes to bang for the buck.
They don't waste money on chrome or other aesthetic junk (though that is what some people want). They put all their eggs in one basket...performance. Now, THAT is what I'm talking about.
They don't waste money on chrome or other aesthetic junk (though that is what some people want). They put all their eggs in one basket...performance. Now, THAT is what I'm talking about.
Hi !
Currently I am designing a subwoofer with the Sadhara drivers
from Adire. Well, two of them.
It is more technical driven project, let's say my personal
sub research.
Sealed cabinet, about 30 liters. Linkwitz transform down to 12Hz.
SMPS, Class-D amp.
Uhps, yes, yes.... to everybody who remeber my former
Sadhara discussions... Don't say anything!
I am working on this already half a year and it will take me the next year at least.
Subs are not my only passion and honestly speaking....
This one
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25015&highlight=
COULD (!) already drive my neighbours crazy....
No need to hurry.
I think the drawback with Adire is their price strategy.
Most people do not like to pay the double price for double
linear cone excursion.....
But in fact double excursion is four times acoustic power!
If you want a small size sub with impressive output, then
speakers like a Tumult or a Sadhara are quite interesting.
But such small designs with low end EQ need a good portion
of amp power.... causing again financial drawback...
Another point in ultra high excursion speakers is the
mechanical noise caused by the wires. Up to +/19 mm this
is working fine in my Sadhara drivers. Above this, the wires between
basket and coil are starting to touch the cone and cause some noise. So only the motor would allow linear +/-27mm.
BassAwdyO:
Looks like you own a TUMULT. It should be capable of +/-34mm.
Does this work without mechanical noise from the wires, which touch the cone?
My two cents:
For people who have enough place, it might be
more convincing to use multiple, but less excessive drivers.
Only miniaturization-driven bass junkies need to go for more than +10/-10mm!
Cheers
Markus
Currently I am designing a subwoofer with the Sadhara drivers
from Adire. Well, two of them.
It is more technical driven project, let's say my personal
sub research.
Sealed cabinet, about 30 liters. Linkwitz transform down to 12Hz.
SMPS, Class-D amp.
Uhps, yes, yes.... to everybody who remeber my former
Sadhara discussions... Don't say anything!
I am working on this already half a year and it will take me the next year at least.
Subs are not my only passion and honestly speaking....
This one
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25015&highlight=
COULD (!) already drive my neighbours crazy....
No need to hurry.
I think the drawback with Adire is their price strategy.
Most people do not like to pay the double price for double
linear cone excursion.....
But in fact double excursion is four times acoustic power!
If you want a small size sub with impressive output, then
speakers like a Tumult or a Sadhara are quite interesting.
But such small designs with low end EQ need a good portion
of amp power.... causing again financial drawback...
Another point in ultra high excursion speakers is the
mechanical noise caused by the wires. Up to +/19 mm this
is working fine in my Sadhara drivers. Above this, the wires between
basket and coil are starting to touch the cone and cause some noise. So only the motor would allow linear +/-27mm.
BassAwdyO:
Looks like you own a TUMULT. It should be capable of +/-34mm.
Does this work without mechanical noise from the wires, which touch the cone?
My two cents:
For people who have enough place, it might be
more convincing to use multiple, but less excessive drivers.
Only miniaturization-driven bass junkies need to go for more than +10/-10mm!
Cheers
Markus
Choc,
Indeed, I do own one. Tinsel lead slap isnt something I have experienced a problem with yet, but I'm still only running about 200wattsRMS. The cone has felt pads where the tinsel leads would slap however to muffle the noise I'm sure. I have gotten it up to at least 2 inches p-p on some infrasonic test tones(along with tuning the box above 30hz to allow such easy cone movement) and hadnt noticed any leadslap.
I dont know why they didnt either
A. weave the tinsel leads into the spider
or
B. Use some sort of spider similar to parthenon's
but I suppose that would all be a matter of economics.
Does the sadhara come with those felt pads? if they dont I'd suggest putting some on yourself
Indeed, I do own one. Tinsel lead slap isnt something I have experienced a problem with yet, but I'm still only running about 200wattsRMS. The cone has felt pads where the tinsel leads would slap however to muffle the noise I'm sure. I have gotten it up to at least 2 inches p-p on some infrasonic test tones(along with tuning the box above 30hz to allow such easy cone movement) and hadnt noticed any leadslap.
I dont know why they didnt either
A. weave the tinsel leads into the spider
or
B. Use some sort of spider similar to parthenon's
but I suppose that would all be a matter of economics.
Does the sadhara come with those felt pads? if they dont I'd suggest putting some on yourself
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.