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Old 18th January 2005, 02:53 AM   #11
RHosch is offline RHosch  United States
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box size will affect the upper bass range less than the lower frequencies. However, smaller enclosures do lead to hotter voice coils for the same output SPL, which leads to higher power compression. Depending on the behavior of the drivers you are looking at, this could affect midbass performance to a greater or lesser degree.

30% Vb increase with stuffing seems a bit optimistic. 10% might be more typical.
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Old 18th January 2005, 05:01 AM   #12
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For a WAF friendly option, consider a pair of 6.5" or 8" drivers per side. This is often more appealing as the width can match your existing speakers, and building the boxes can be cheaper than buying speaker stands. Two speakers gets more efficiency, to combat the effects of bafflestep. The Vifa M18 is a nice solid midbass driver, has a good xmax and is considered similar to the SS 8545 at a lower price point. Or there is the Peerless HDS 8" which has a faceplate which allows for a narrow speaker width for an 8" driver. Both of these have good excursion and you could make a vented box that is more domestically acceptable than the CSX, which, although a nice driver, tends to want a big box.

Now if you do REALLY want the CSX, I would argue the SAF probably relates more to the width and chunkiness of the box, rather than the box volume. Hence sealed vs vented might not be a dig deal regarding SAF.

Quote:
1) In a tradeoff, I'll take transient response over LF extension.
Is this based on an intellectual opinion, or actually having heard the same driver in a sealed vs vented box?

Personally I think there is a lot of nonsense and misconception surrounding the sonic differences.

Quote:
2) Did I mention that these things have to be as inconspicuous as possible? SAF is a critical metric.
Yes but there are always many ways to do things. First decide what you want to do, then set about finding a creative way to do it. There are tricks to make bigger boxes acceptable. Curves. Tall & thin. Disguised as furniture ....... This is a good place to get creative.

Granted, there are limits. I find about 60L is the limit of what I'm happy with as volume for my 12" sub drivers, to be able to get it looking elegant and not too chunky with my particular design.

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3) This is my first DIY speaker, and I'm not confident that I can get critical factors right. I'm led to believe that there is less to screw up with a sealed enclosure.
If you aren't confident, best way is to build a test box. Make it from scraps if you like. Stick the vent out of the box, throw it all together in a few hours and have a listen.

Vented boxes are dead easy to design and build. On paper they might work not quite as you have simulated due to the accuracy of the program and the parameters on your actual driver being a little different. In practise this is not normally as critical as you might think.
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Old 18th January 2005, 04:11 PM   #13
simon5 is offline simon5  Canada
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Ddeele, you could buy 8 DAYTON SD215-8-8 8" SHIELDED DVC SUBWOOFER drivers from PartsExpress (Part Number 295-480).

Then you build two dual isobaric sealed enclosures for about 80$ per box in drivers. If you go with two dual isobaric ported, even better! That box would be small enough and could be built like a rectangular box.

If you can have a bigger rectangular enclosure, 4 drivers push-pull per side would have awesome efficiency.
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Old 19th January 2005, 11:17 PM   #14
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Or you could buy a pair of Shiva's, slap them into a sealed enclosure with about 150-200w eachand you would be more than happy.
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Old 20th January 2005, 01:30 AM   #15
Ddeele is offline Ddeele  United States
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Yeah, the Shivas would doubtless be the right solution, but I want to do this NOW, not when I can actually afford it. Also, when I get the scratch to upgrade the mains, I'll probably want to upgrade the subs too. Consider this project the foundation for better adventures ahead.

Now, I want to thank everyone again for this discussion. This is a great forum, and the various arguments you've put forward have been a huge help in deciding how to proceed.

All things considered, I've settled on the Peerless 850146's, in either simple sealed or ported enclosures.

Ahh, sealed or ported...

Which is right ultimately comes down to a subjective judgement about what works best with my equipment, in my room, playing my music, in my opinion. Now I just need an opinion.

I've decided to make two carefully designed but quick and cheap prototypes out of plywood and sonotube (and a piece of PVC pipe), so I can decide. The models of these enclosures are so drastically different that it should be a pretty obvious choice once I actually hear them.

This project actually gets folded into some other major home improvements, so I'm not quite sure when it will all be done, but I'll let you know how the test run turns out. Meanwhile, any other advice is more than welcome.

Thanks again...
Ddeele
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Old 20th January 2005, 08:50 AM   #16
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Quote:
Which is right ultimately comes down to a subjective judgement about what works best with my equipment, in my room, playing my music, in my opinion......

I've decided to make two carefully designed but quick and cheap prototypes out of plywood and sonotube (and a piece of PVC pipe), so I can decide.
Makes a lot of sense to me - try it out with quick prototypes rather than let someone else tell you what sounds better. This is the way to do it - try things out THEN come back and discuss what you heard, both your theory and experience together should help you make sense of things.
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