8,8 meter basshorn "6090 Monster" - Page 2

Skramstad · 14th January 2005, 08:15 AM

Hi!

Here are some more info:
Efficiency is 105 dB @ 1m with one watt of power in the bandwidth from 18-150 Hz.

I have'nt got a chicken farm, but one of my friends have 8000 chickens, so it is a possibility that we can try out Cal Weldons proposal;)

The other one is coming as soon as I have enough space, maybe during summer.

I would rather want a car for the horn than the horn for my current car. It did not fit into a 64 cubicmeter truck, so I hope you have a large car Mr Joules:)

The horn is designed for the PHL Audio 6090, but since it is built in pieces it would be possible to change the start of the throat. Then you have a lot of choices, maybe a quadruple PHL Audio 7090 or 6174s from McCauley.
The whole purpose with the horn as it stands right now is to see how detailed and loud a single 15" driver can be if proper loaded.

AndrewT · 14th January 2005, 11:53 AM

Hi,
can you publish some technical design info on the horn?
throat area, mouth area, Fc (cutoff frequency), M (exponential or hyperbolic), flare rate, etc.
regards Andrew T.

simon5 · 14th January 2005, 02:03 PM

I wonder how a single Ascendant Audio Avalanche 18" could go down low with a horn like this.

Very good work, 105 dB efficiency at 18 Hz, unbeatable.

demogorgon · 14th January 2005, 02:34 PM

are you actually gonna use it?

cant see it fitting in a normal livingroom to put it that way.
probably lots of fun though.. (and damn efficient too..)

Skramstad · 14th January 2005, 06:47 PM

Hi!

Some more technical info:
Inner throat area 0,025 square m (not so strange as you might think since the driver is sideloaded), inner mouth area 2,88 square m (without basswings), -3dB point @ 16 Hz (without basswings), the horn is a combination of conical and exponential segments since the intention with it is good sound quality at low frequencies. I do not think a hyperbolic design would sound as nice as the current horn, but it certainly would have been louder.

I would be pleased if someone could tell me more about the Ascendant Audio Avalanche 18" driver (a link or S & T parameters). Maybe a quadruple throat with those will do the trix:)

If I'm gonna use it or not? The answer is of course a big YES.

I have even invited some friends to dinner with me in the horn. Muzak will of course be pipe organ music and earthquakes.
The event will take place during this weekend, and I think milkshake would be a proper fluid for the happening.
Anyone got an idea for food?

Fullrange idea:
I have been thinking of making the 6090 Monster a triaxial design with an Altec Lansing 417-8H loading a 2 meter horn with an 299-8AT loaded Altec Lansing MR2542 inside. It seems like this could be a nice 40*20 fullrange speaker.
What do you think about that idea?
Someone got any proposal for other good 12" midrange drivers than the 417-8H?

Cal Weldon · 14th January 2005, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skramstad

The other one is coming as soon as I have enough space, maybe during summer.

Are you serious?

Quote:

Originally posted by Skramstad

The event will take place during this weekend, and I think milkshake would be a proper fluid for the happening.
Anyone got an idea for food?

How about a tossed salad and an apple turnover. Just BASSIC stuff. Possibly a beer with a high hop count?

Quote:

Originally posted by Skramstad
Someone got any proposal for other good 12" midrange drivers than the 417-8H?

Will a ten inch do?
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshow...=264-432&DID=7

Cal

bwbass · 15th January 2005, 03:28 AM

Sounded interesting, so I looked it up. From www.ascendantaudio.com:

Avalanche 18 Specs
Fs 16 Hz
Qms 6.00
Qes .429
Qts .400
Vas 550 L
Re 3.2 ohms
Znom* 4 ohms
Xmax 27 mm
Sd 1210 cm2
Mms 369 g
Vd 6.53 L
Pnom 800 watts
Le 2.4 mH
Cutout 16.75"
Diameter 18.5"
Depth 9.1"
Weight 42 pounds

Not right for a horn, I think, but if it were, wowie!

AndrewT · 15th January 2005, 08:52 PM

What's the point in inviting them round for the party?
Just turn the volume up a bit and you go round to them instead!!!
regards Andrew T.

Skramstad · 16th January 2005, 02:14 AM

I'm always serious of course, both about building another one and that I need more space before I do so:)

Thanks for the food proposal.

A ten inch would do, but the Selenium driver looked kind of weak compared to the Altec Lansing 12" driver. It also seemed like the frequency response was built as a mountain with the top around 800 Hz which is not good considering crossover with the 299 driver. But thank you for the tip.

Wow, the Avalanche 18" seems like a great bassdriver.
I agree with you that it is not a good driver for traditional horn loading. But it is an excellent choice for basshorns containing non traditional horn loading. It would not work properly loaded on to the 6090 Monster because the throat is designed for a lower x-max driver, but the first 4 meters of the horn could be changed with a proper throat for the Avalanche.
This kind of drivers which we may can call a crossover between car woofers and PA woofers performs much better at low frequencies than traditional car woofers or PA woofers. They have tremendous force and speed in the lowest octaves.
I have tested out similar types of woofers but the Avalanche have better specs, so I certainly want to check out Ascendant audio.

About playing music for my friends from a distance instead of a gathering in the horn:
A 8,8 meter horn has a very high degree of directivity, so if I had a laser and a large mechanical lifting device (it should at least be able to lift the horn 300 meter straight up) it may would have been easier.
But to be serious, it is no good idea, think about all the people who lives in the path of the mysterios low frequency soundwaves;)

simon5 · 17th January 2005, 01:19 AM

Hi Skramstad, I want to know why this driver (Avalanche 18) is good for non-traditional horn loading but not good for traditional?

This driver is the highest displacement woofer in production I know of. It's 6,5 liters of air moved per full stoke. Also the Fs is a very low 16 Hz and the efficiency is a good 89 dB/1W/1m.

You may want to consider the Adire Audio Tumult, www.adireaudio.com it's a 15 inches with 5 liters of displacement but the price is much higher with a lower efficiency at 87,1 dB/1W/1m and a higher Fs at 19 Hz, or the Ascendant Audio Avalanche 15, 4 liters of displacement with a bit lower Fs at 15,7 Hz and efficiency at 87,5 dB/1W/1m. Maybe these drivers can be used in traditional horns?

Adire Audio Tumult:
Qms 4.3
Qes 0.39
Qts 0.36
Re 3.2 ohms (1.6 Ohms per VC)
Le 4.2 mH (2.1 mH per VC)
Fs 19 Hz
BL 18.5 N/A
Mms 345 grams
Vas 160 liters
Sd 749 cm^2
Xmax 34 mm one way
EBP 48.7
SPL 87.1 dB @ 1W/1m
Distortion <3% @ 28mm one way excursion
Pmax 1600W per IEC 268-5
PRICE $499

Ascendant Audio Avalanche 15:
Fs 15.7 Hz
Qms 3.5
Qes .334
Qts .305
Vas 300.6 L
Re 3.2 ohms
Znom* 4 ohms
Xmax 27 mm
Sd 749 cm2
Mms 269 g
Vd 4.04 L
Pnom 800 watts
Le 2.4 mH
Cutout 14.125"
Diameter 15.5"
Depth 7.875"
Weight 37 pounds
PRICE $329

14th January 2005, 02:03 PM	#13
simon5 diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Québec, Québec	I wonder how a single Ascendant Audio Avalanche 18" could go down low with a horn like this. Very good work, 105 dB efficiency at 18 Hz, unbeatable. __________________ DIYaudio for President !

17th January 2005, 01:19 AM	#20
simon5 diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Québec, Québec	Hi Skramstad, I want to know why this driver (Avalanche 18) is good for non-traditional horn loading but not good for traditional? This driver is the highest displacement woofer in production I know of. It's 6,5 liters of air moved per full stoke. Also the Fs is a very low 16 Hz and the efficiency is a good 89 dB/1W/1m. You may want to consider the Adire Audio Tumult, www.adireaudio.com it's a 15 inches with 5 liters of displacement but the price is much higher with a lower efficiency at 87,1 dB/1W/1m and a higher Fs at 19 Hz, or the Ascendant Audio Avalanche 15, 4 liters of displacement with a bit lower Fs at 15,7 Hz and efficiency at 87,5 dB/1W/1m. Maybe these drivers can be used in traditional horns? Adire Audio Tumult: Qms 4.3 Qes 0.39 Qts 0.36 Re 3.2 ohms (1.6 Ohms per VC) Le 4.2 mH (2.1 mH per VC) Fs 19 Hz BL 18.5 N/A Mms 345 grams Vas 160 liters Sd 749 cm^2 Xmax 34 mm one way EBP 48.7 SPL 87.1 dB @ 1W/1m Distortion <3% @ 28mm one way excursion Pmax 1600W per IEC 268-5 PRICE $499 Ascendant Audio Avalanche 15: Fs 15.7 Hz Qms 3.5 Qes .334 Qts .305 Vas 300.6 L Re 3.2 ohms Znom* 4 ohms Xmax 27 mm Sd 749 cm2 Mms 269 g Vd 4.04 L Pnom 800 watts Le 2.4 mH Cutout 14.125" Diameter 15.5" Depth 7.875" Weight 37 pounds PRICE $329 __________________ DIYaudio for President !

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14th January 2005, 08:15 AM	#11
Skramstad diyAudio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Drammen	Hi! Here are some more info: Efficiency is 105 dB @ 1m with one watt of power in the bandwidth from 18-150 Hz. I have'nt got a chicken farm, but one of my friends have 8000 chickens, so it is a possibility that we can try out Cal Weldons proposal;) The other one is coming as soon as I have enough space, maybe during summer. I would rather want a car for the horn than the horn for my current car. It did not fit into a 64 cubicmeter truck, so I hope you have a large car Mr Joules:) The horn is designed for the PHL Audio 6090, but since it is built in pieces it would be possible to change the start of the throat. Then you have a lot of choices, maybe a quadruple PHL Audio 7090 or 6174s from McCauley. The whole purpose with the horn as it stands right now is to see how detailed and loud a single 15" driver can be if proper loaded.

14th January 2005, 11:53 AM	#12
AndrewT diyAudio Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Scottish Borders	Hi, can you publish some technical design info on the horn? throat area, mouth area, Fc (cutoff frequency), M (exponential or hyperbolic), flare rate, etc. regards Andrew T.

14th January 2005, 02:34 PM	#14
demogorgon diyAudio Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Behind you.	are you actually gonna use it? cant see it fitting in a normal livingroom to put it that way. probably lots of fun though.. (and damn efficient too..)

14th January 2005, 06:47 PM	#15
Skramstad diyAudio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Drammen	Hi! Some more technical info: Inner throat area 0,025 square m (not so strange as you might think since the driver is sideloaded), inner mouth area 2,88 square m (without basswings), -3dB point @ 16 Hz (without basswings), the horn is a combination of conical and exponential segments since the intention with it is good sound quality at low frequencies. I do not think a hyperbolic design would sound as nice as the current horn, but it certainly would have been louder. I would be pleased if someone could tell me more about the Ascendant Audio Avalanche 18" driver (a link or S & T parameters). Maybe a quadruple throat with those will do the trix:) If I'm gonna use it or not? The answer is of course a big YES. I have even invited some friends to dinner with me in the horn. Muzak will of course be pipe organ music and earthquakes. The event will take place during this weekend, and I think milkshake would be a proper fluid for the happening. Anyone got an idea for food? Fullrange idea: I have been thinking of making the 6090 Monster a triaxial design with an Altec Lansing 417-8H loading a 2 meter horn with an 299-8AT loaded Altec Lansing MR2542 inside. It seems like this could be a nice 40*20 fullrange speaker. What do you think about that idea? Someone got any proposal for other good 12" midrange drivers than the 417-8H?

15th January 2005, 03:28 AM	#17
bwbass diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2004	Sounded interesting, so I looked it up. From www.ascendantaudio.com: Avalanche 18 Specs Fs 16 Hz Qms 6.00 Qes .429 Qts .400 Vas 550 L Re 3.2 ohms Znom* 4 ohms Xmax 27 mm Sd 1210 cm2 Mms 369 g Vd 6.53 L Pnom 800 watts Le 2.4 mH Cutout 16.75" Diameter 18.5" Depth 9.1" Weight 42 pounds Not right for a horn, I think, but if it were, wowie!

15th January 2005, 08:52 PM	#18
AndrewT diyAudio Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Scottish Borders	What's the point in inviting them round for the party? Just turn the volume up a bit and you go round to them instead!!! regards Andrew T.

16th January 2005, 02:14 AM	#19
Skramstad diyAudio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Drammen	I'm always serious of course, both about building another one and that I need more space before I do so:) Thanks for the food proposal. A ten inch would do, but the Selenium driver looked kind of weak compared to the Altec Lansing 12" driver. It also seemed like the frequency response was built as a mountain with the top around 800 Hz which is not good considering crossover with the 299 driver. But thank you for the tip. Wow, the Avalanche 18" seems like a great bassdriver. I agree with you that it is not a good driver for traditional horn loading. But it is an excellent choice for basshorns containing non traditional horn loading. It would not work properly loaded on to the 6090 Monster because the throat is designed for a lower x-max driver, but the first 4 meters of the horn could be changed with a proper throat for the Avalanche. This kind of drivers which we may can call a crossover between car woofers and PA woofers performs much better at low frequencies than traditional car woofers or PA woofers. They have tremendous force and speed in the lowest octaves. I have tested out similar types of woofers but the Avalanche have better specs, so I certainly want to check out Ascendant audio. About playing music for my friends from a distance instead of a gathering in the horn: A 8,8 meter horn has a very high degree of directivity, so if I had a laser and a large mechanical lifting device (it should at least be able to lift the horn 300 meter straight up) it may would have been easier. But to be serious, it is no good idea, think about all the people who lives in the path of the mysterios low frequency soundwaves;)