Could the AOS Super Subwoofer be with an ESL?

michaelpage26 · 22nd December 2004, 10:22 PM

This sub uses 1 x Scan-speak 23W 4557T 2 x Scan-speak 23 W 00-00 passive radiators
with the plate amplifier RAS-200. The Scanspeak Scan-speak 23W 4557T has an Mms of 101g. Is it considered very much? Does that mean that it will have worse transient response than a driver with less Mms ? Will it have a fast character that can match well with the lightning fast transient response of an ESL?

Thanks,Best Wishes for Merry Christmas

Michael

michaelpage26 · 22nd December 2004, 10:49 PM

Trying to answer my own question:

Adire Audio comes up with this after using Physics laws...

Mass isn't the problem - inductance is. So if you want faster transient response, ignore that moving mass
parameter that some manufacturers push - look at the inductance! And if they don't list the inductance, ask
yourself why - is there something they don't want to show? Inductance is the key to driver transient
response - ask for it when transient response comes up!

Well that means that the 25w8565 with a Le=0.6mH will have worse transient response than that of 23w4557T having Le=0.45mH,and the second will be a "bit slower acting" than the 21W/8555-00 with Le=0.4mH. That's may be why I found the Wilson Sophias bass really slow and unintresting having a woofer 25W/8567-SE with Le=0.9mH! Also the BL factor plays some role...

What have you to say with all this?

Thanks

michaelpage26 · 22nd December 2004, 11:46 PM

I also found with WinISD that the Scan-speak 23W 4557T can give 30hz -3db and 20hz -8db in a 36 L sealed box. Is this a good option for esl match especially for music use

MauriceNL · 29th June 2005, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by michaelpage26
I also found with WinISD that the Scan-speak 23W 4557T can give 30hz -3db and 20hz -8db in a 36 L sealed box. Is this a good option for esl match especially for music use

I am sorry for the late post, I used the search engine on the 23W unit

I am going to use the same unit for my setup (1 per channel) and I will design it for a Qtc of 0,57. Result is a larger box, but also increased response!

When combining with an ESL I would suggest to bring the Qtc down by using a larger box, you can actually do this is WinISD! I think a Qtc of 0,5 would be very good choice, since the subunit will have a hard time to keep pace with the ESL

michaelpage26 · 29th June 2005, 09:44 AM

Thanks Maurice for your answer,

but I didn't understand your last phrase: "since the subunit...the ESL"

Can you explain it a bit?

Thanks in advance.

P.S Unfortunately it's really rare to find any info about these sub on the web

RobWells · 29th June 2005, 05:07 PM

If I has esl's I'd be looking at dipole stereo subs, maybe with the sealed sub below them... (25/35Hz down) Take a look at Linkwitz's Beethoven grandes....

http://www.woodartistry.com/linkwitzlab/B-Grand.htm

Cheers,

Rob

MauriceNL · 29th June 2005, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by michaelpage26
but I didn't understand your last phrase: "since the subunit...the ESL"

Can you explain it a bit?

Thanks in advance.

ESL are tremenduous fast reproducers of sound, way faster than conventional cone/magnet units (f.e. the mentioned subwoofer).
Most of the time you combine a conventional sub with an ESL, you will notice that the bass is slower than the rest of the music.

Put a woofer in a closed box and its respons will increase (faster). Bring down the Qtc of the box (to 0,5 ideally) and the delay of the unit will further decrease. You can see it in WinISD!

MauriceNL · 29th June 2005, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RobWells
If I has esl's I'd be looking at dipole stereo subs, maybe with the sealed sub below them... (25/35Hz down) Take a look at Linkwitz's Beethoven grandes....

http://www.woodartistry.com/linkwitzlab/B-Grand.htm

Cheers,

Rob

Ouch, these babies are huge

and power hungry :-S

What I have read, dipole should be the way to for ESL.
I have thought about it, given its speed but then I had to invest more mony and more space

Some units of Peerless could do the job well, as I have read on a Dutch DIY forum.

michaelpage26 · 30th June 2005, 09:30 AM

If I go with these woofers I will go for sure with the sealed enclosure. -8hz in 20hz is way too good to be true for my room.
I don't prefer bass extension that much, but my first priority is bass slam and of course detailed ,punchy and really deep bass.
I hope your project will have very good results

and bass caracteristics that will suit my preferencies...

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22nd December 2004, 10:49 PM	#2
michaelpage26 diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Athens	Trying to answer my own question: Adire Audio comes up with this after using Physics laws... Mass isn't the problem - inductance is. So if you want faster transient response, ignore that moving mass parameter that some manufacturers push - look at the inductance! And if they don't list the inductance, ask yourself why - is there something they don't want to show? Inductance is the key to driver transient response - ask for it when transient response comes up! Well that means that the 25w8565 with a Le=0.6mH will have worse transient response than that of 23w4557T having Le=0.45mH,and the second will be a "bit slower acting" than the 21W/8555-00 with Le=0.4mH. That's may be why I found the Wilson Sophias bass really slow and unintresting having a woofer 25W/8567-SE with Le=0.9mH! Also the BL factor plays some role... What have you to say with all this? Thanks

22nd December 2004, 11:46 PM	#3
michaelpage26 diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Athens	I also found with WinISD that the Scan-speak 23W 4557T can give 30hz -3db and 20hz -8db in a 36 L sealed box. Is this a good option for esl match especially for music use

29th June 2005, 09:44 AM	#5
michaelpage26 diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Athens	Thanks Maurice for your answer, but I didn't understand your last phrase: "since the subunit...the ESL" Can you explain it a bit? Thanks in advance. P.S Unfortunately it's really rare to find any info about these sub on the web

29th June 2005, 05:07 PM	#6
RobWells diyAudio Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: UK	If I has esl's I'd be looking at dipole stereo subs, maybe with the sealed sub below them... (25/35Hz down) Take a look at Linkwitz's Beethoven grandes.... http://www.woodartistry.com/linkwitzlab/B-Grand.htm Cheers, Rob

30th June 2005, 09:30 AM	#9
michaelpage26 diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Athens	If I go with these woofers I will go for sure with the sealed enclosure. -8hz in 20hz is way too good to be true for my room. I don't prefer bass extension that much, but my first priority is bass slam and of course detailed ,punchy and really deep bass. I hope your project will have very good results and bass caracteristics that will suit my preferencies...