Blueprint subs in WinISD

[merlinx76]

I was comparing a lot of subs and came across something that I wanted to ask about. When I modeled the blueprint 1203 and 1503 I discovered that it's practically impossible to reach anywhere near the linear Xmax. These subs are advertized as being among the best displacement per dollar yet this would be inaccurate if the subs thermal limit is almost always reached long before Xmax.

It takes about double the power to reach the same excursion as a tempest. Which means about 800W to get 15mm one way excursion... With the thermal limit of 1000W they dont get anywhere near the 25.8mm one way Xmax.

I imagine they are relatively inefficient to say the least.

Is WinISD showing me how they work in real life?

[paulspencer]

Quite possibly Win ISD is correct. It really depends on alignment. An advantage of the Blueprint subs you may have overlooked is that you can use all the spair excursion to put them in a sealed LT box, which will give you a lot of bass in a small box. The excursion will go up significantly, but so will the distortion. Put it in a vented box of say 2x the size, you will probably get 6db more output with less excursion, hence it will be more linear.

Sounds like you are learning what may have found when they got excited about a high excursion subs - more excursion does not mean more output!

Another alternative is to use the excursion to make an EBS and get flat in room response down to 15 Hz.

It's always good to have headroom. The difference between drivers like the Shiva and drivers like Stryke/AV series and Blueprint subs is more headroom than output. Bass is very dynamic and the sub might be moving no more than 12mm, then suddenly it moves 40mm! This is when you want headroom. IMO you need it more for subs.

[mike.e]

1. Be sure that your specifications are up to date.
2. Low tuned ported boxes can still unload at times.
3. Their inefficient because people crave tiny boxes with LF output.

You could consider IB or dipoles

Cheers!

[ThomasW]

Fundamentally WinISD is worth what you paid for it.

Even with good modeling software the BP drivers are a little trickey to model.

They handle quite a bit more power than the rated Pmax.

One noobie dumped the full output of a strapped EP-2500 into a single BP-1503. The VC didn't bottom, but he did succeed in snaping off one the the VC leads at the terminal. He was so ignorant he did this little trick twice. Lucky for him it was possible to resolder the lead.

If you want to see an optimized design for a ported BP-1503 look HERE You can reverse engineer the design from the dimensions given.

[mike.e]

But the program[winisd pro] certainly works-it compares to the free spreadsheets available from diysubwoofers.org,it just doesnt have any fancy features that help you design the box.

Unfortunately ive lost the BP subs site - I do remember it,it sold shivas etc too.

Cheers!

[mike.e]

FOUND it

http://www.acoustic-visions.com/~acoustic/

BP etc
Blueprint Designs 10"-18" Drivers
$205-$290

[ThomasW]

the program[winisd pro] certainly works-it compares to the free spreadsheets available from diysubwoofers.org,it just doesnt have any fancy features that help you design the box.

Compare a box model between WinISD and Unibox you'll see some interesting differences. Unibox models compare favorably with box models I make with LspCAD Pro.

Regarding the BluePrints there are no more 18"s, and there are very few 15"s left

[mike.e]

Oh yes I think the Q losses are different on Winisd. Which is more correct? Who knows,nor is it audible probably.

If the BP subs are so popular,why are they out of stock?

[ThomasW]

You'll find that things like port lengths are different. My experience is that WinISD's models aren't trustworthy

Kyle purchased the remaining BP inventory from audioliquidators. When that inventory is sold there are no more parts available to build drivers. He is talking with RE about another production run. Pricing might be an issue since the parts for the first production run were originally purchased many many years ago. Since then everything has increased in price.

[mike.e]

I guess the Stryke subs are similar anyway.

No I disagree.Although I havent tested it myself,Im told by 2 different people who have compared them that theres no difference.

(since i only have winisd pro,and I havent built a box with it in a year,I have no need for lots of box programs)
My 2226 box is measured to be atleast,within 1hz of the tuning frequency it should be,so I have no worries at all

Cheers!