Looking to build a sonosub and having access to car audio subwoofers at a substantial discount, I think I have found a winner. Just want to see what you guys think. I know most car audio subwoofers aren’t ideal in a home theater environment, and I’ve modeled a handful of them and you guys are right. But I might have found something here…
The Infinity Kappa 12” woofer models out extremely nice in WinISD, even better than all the woofers from Parts Express…for my application. I can’t have a huge 50” tall sonosub due to the WAF and after modeling the Kappa 12”, it looks like a sure winner. Here are the specs from their website and also how it modeled out:
http://www.infinityspeakers.com/caraudio/product.aspx?ProdId='KAPPA+120.3SE'&Ser=KAP&Cat=SUB
http://manuals.harman.com/INF/CAR/Boxes and Parameters/1203se_f.pdf
3.478 cubic feet (16” sonotube will be ~30in tall)
Tuning frequency = 23.80 hz.
-3db point = 21.69 hz.
Infinity rates this as 92db efficient with 2.83v/1m, but that’s more like 89db 1w/1m, correct? With the price of the driver ($50 new), sonotube, MDF, carpet, and port, I can build this subwoofer for under $100! I currently own the SVS 25-31 CS+ and it sounds KILLER, but I think I can sell it for $350-$400 (it’s mint) and build a few of these. This Kappa sonosub will be roughly the same size as the SVS (a few inches taller) and will also go a few db lower. I have a brand new Crown XLS402A amp which does 400x2 (4ohm) or 570x2 (2 ohm). I could run two of these off it at 4 ohms and feed them each 400 watts of power, or if I want to go insane, build 4 for $400, give each 285 watts of power (near the 300w RMS rating) and shake my whole house!
What do you guys think? Any better solutions for roughly the same money? Am I nuts? I appreciate ANY and ALL feedback so feel free to post anything you’d like. One thing that does worry me is properly setting up multiple subs. I’ve seen where a guy had 3 SVS cylinders all touching each other in a room so they weren’t spread out. I’m not quite sure how to place 4 subs in one room
Thanks!
The Infinity Kappa 12” woofer models out extremely nice in WinISD, even better than all the woofers from Parts Express…for my application. I can’t have a huge 50” tall sonosub due to the WAF and after modeling the Kappa 12”, it looks like a sure winner. Here are the specs from their website and also how it modeled out:
http://www.infinityspeakers.com/caraudio/product.aspx?ProdId='KAPPA+120.3SE'&Ser=KAP&Cat=SUB
http://manuals.harman.com/INF/CAR/Boxes and Parameters/1203se_f.pdf
3.478 cubic feet (16” sonotube will be ~30in tall)
Tuning frequency = 23.80 hz.
-3db point = 21.69 hz.
Infinity rates this as 92db efficient with 2.83v/1m, but that’s more like 89db 1w/1m, correct? With the price of the driver ($50 new), sonotube, MDF, carpet, and port, I can build this subwoofer for under $100! I currently own the SVS 25-31 CS+ and it sounds KILLER, but I think I can sell it for $350-$400 (it’s mint) and build a few of these. This Kappa sonosub will be roughly the same size as the SVS (a few inches taller) and will also go a few db lower. I have a brand new Crown XLS402A amp which does 400x2 (4ohm) or 570x2 (2 ohm). I could run two of these off it at 4 ohms and feed them each 400 watts of power, or if I want to go insane, build 4 for $400, give each 285 watts of power (near the 300w RMS rating) and shake my whole house!
What do you guys think? Any better solutions for roughly the same money? Am I nuts? I appreciate ANY and ALL feedback so feel free to post anything you’d like. One thing that does worry me is properly setting up multiple subs. I’ve seen where a guy had 3 SVS cylinders all touching each other in a room so they weren’t spread out. I’m not quite sure how to place 4 subs in one room
Thanks!
For a rectangular room the best place is one sub on the center of each wall. The next best is one sub in each corner. This is according to research at Harmon International. They were trying to minimize peaks and nulls accross a wide listening position. I don't think they were using eq. There is a whitepaper on their site.
My opinion is that corners are better if you use eq.
Hi Mazeroth,
The drivers look OK for HT use but not ideal, they are still designed for car use and are relying on cabin gain. For the amount of effort you are willing to invest in this, I think you would be happier with a better HT driver and one sub for $400. If you want a 12" for example there is the Adire Audio DPL12, the Shiva and the PE Titanics or the Blueprints from Acoustic Visions. They all have much lower resonant frequencies and more Xmax, although you couldn't buy as many, the SQ is probably better and you will have better extension. Just my 2 cents.
Gatemplin
The drivers look OK for HT use but not ideal, they are still designed for car use and are relying on cabin gain. For the amount of effort you are willing to invest in this, I think you would be happier with a better HT driver and one sub for $400. If you want a 12" for example there is the Adire Audio DPL12, the Shiva and the PE Titanics or the Blueprints from Acoustic Visions. They all have much lower resonant frequencies and more Xmax, although you couldn't buy as many, the SQ is probably better and you will have better extension. Just my 2 cents.
Gatemplin
I modeled the Shiva in WinISD and compared it to the Kappa 12:
Shiva ($125)
4.380 cubic feet
22.32 tuning frequency
22.49hz (-3db)
16.6mm xmax one way
87.3 db 1w/1m
Kappa ($50) (-$75)
3.478 cubic feet (0.902 less cubic feet)
23.80 tuning frequency (+1.48)(not sure how important this figure is)
21.69hz (-3db) (0.80 lower)
13.5mm xmax one way (3.1mm less)
86.01 db 1w/1m (-1.29db ouch)(didn't trust Infinity's 89db)
Kappa has a lot lower cost and a smaller enclosure, with a lower -3db frequency. The Shiva has a lower tuning frequency, more xmax, and is more sensitive. Hmmm...what would you guys do? I currently have the SVS 25-31 CS+ and love it, but was trying to get more bang for my buck, along with learning as I build something. I was thinking even two of these for $200, with $200 left in my pocket after selling the SVS will be able to outperform the SVS. What do you think?
Shiva ($125)
4.380 cubic feet
22.32 tuning frequency
22.49hz (-3db)
16.6mm xmax one way
87.3 db 1w/1m
Kappa ($50) (-$75)
3.478 cubic feet (0.902 less cubic feet)
23.80 tuning frequency (+1.48)(not sure how important this figure is)
21.69hz (-3db) (0.80 lower)
13.5mm xmax one way (3.1mm less)
86.01 db 1w/1m (-1.29db ouch)(didn't trust Infinity's 89db)
Kappa has a lot lower cost and a smaller enclosure, with a lower -3db frequency. The Shiva has a lower tuning frequency, more xmax, and is more sensitive. Hmmm...what would you guys do? I currently have the SVS 25-31 CS+ and love it, but was trying to get more bang for my buck, along with learning as I build something. I was thinking even two of these for $200, with $200 left in my pocket after selling the SVS will be able to outperform the SVS. What do you think?
I dont understand how the Kappa has a lower F3, the F3 is lower than the resonant free air frequency. That seems odd to me, maybe I'm wrong though. Are both boxes the same Q?
The Shiva should go louder with more displacement but still probably not as loud as the CS+. I think the plus is probably closer to the Tempest.
The Shiva should go louder with more displacement but still probably not as loud as the CS+. I think the plus is probably closer to the Tempest.
Infinitys should work
If you can get those kappas that cheap, I'd say your going to get alot more "bang for your buck" than going with a SVS or another HT diy driver. SQ might suffer slightly and also LF extension, but if you tune low in a big box you should be able to achieve 20hz pretty easily. Personally I'd say you'll need 4 of the kappas to get outsanding bass in a room. Dont trust the power handling provided by infinity. I'd imagine you wont get past 200watts before you reach Xmax in the enclosures you're using. 150 would probably be a safe value per sub. Car audio boxes small. You're using 3.5cubes for 23hz tuning while infinity probably recomends about 1.75 cubic feet with 30hz tuning. This will decrease your dampening and give your sub the ability to reach Xmax with significantly less power.
If you can get those kappas that cheap, I'd say your going to get alot more "bang for your buck" than going with a SVS or another HT diy driver. SQ might suffer slightly and also LF extension, but if you tune low in a big box you should be able to achieve 20hz pretty easily. Personally I'd say you'll need 4 of the kappas to get outsanding bass in a room. Dont trust the power handling provided by infinity. I'd imagine you wont get past 200watts before you reach Xmax in the enclosures you're using. 150 would probably be a safe value per sub. Car audio boxes small. You're using 3.5cubes for 23hz tuning while infinity probably recomends about 1.75 cubic feet with 30hz tuning. This will decrease your dampening and give your sub the ability to reach Xmax with significantly less power.
If it's going to be worthwhile, then don't you also want an increase in performance?
You could get:
$150 Adire Tempest 15"
$200 Dayton Titanic 15"
$205 Stryke AV15
$240 Blueprint 15"
$289 Adire Koda 15"
The Tempest is a great bang for buck driver, the others are great mid level drivers which are a bit more robust. The Koda stands out in terms of performance as it has XBL technology and if your budget can stretch this far then it's very tempting. If you are going to use a sonotube sub, then I think 15" drivers are better bang for buck.
You could get:
$150 Adire Tempest 15"
$200 Dayton Titanic 15"
$205 Stryke AV15
$240 Blueprint 15"
$289 Adire Koda 15"
The Tempest is a great bang for buck driver, the others are great mid level drivers which are a bit more robust. The Koda stands out in terms of performance as it has XBL technology and if your budget can stretch this far then it's very tempting. If you are going to use a sonotube sub, then I think 15" drivers are better bang for buck.
Thanks for checking up on the progress!
I bought all the parts I'll be using yesterday, including black car carpeting, port tubes, speaker terminals, etc... I'm still deciding on which driver to use, but I'm 75% sure I'm going to give the Kappa a try. Even if it doesn't perform up to my expectations I can still use it with my computer, hooked up to a 70w plate amp I just got new for $37. I'll keep you guys updated. Might not have anything for a few weeks so hang in there
I bought all the parts I'll be using yesterday, including black car carpeting, port tubes, speaker terminals, etc... I'm still deciding on which driver to use, but I'm 75% sure I'm going to give the Kappa a try. Even if it doesn't perform up to my expectations I can still use it with my computer, hooked up to a 70w plate amp I just got new for $37. I'll keep you guys updated. Might not have anything for a few weeks so hang in there
mazeroth said:Thanks for checking up on the progress!
I bought all the parts I'll be using yesterday, including black car carpeting, port tubes, speaker terminals, etc... I'm still deciding on which driver to use, but I'm 75% sure I'm going to give the Kappa a try. Even if it doesn't perform up to my expectations I can still use it with my computer, hooked up to a 70w plate amp I just got new for $37. I'll keep you guys updated. Might not have anything for a few weeks so hang in there
I´m ready to hear somthing new about your kappa sub
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