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Old 19th October 2004, 06:21 PM   #1
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Default Cheap sonosub found...I think...

Looking to build a sonosub and having access to car audio subwoofers at a substantial discount, I think I have found a winner. Just want to see what you guys think. I know most car audio subwoofers arenít ideal in a home theater environment, and Iíve modeled a handful of them and you guys are right. But I might have found something hereÖ

The Infinity Kappa 12Ē woofer models out extremely nice in WinISD, even better than all the woofers from Parts ExpressÖfor my application. I canít have a huge 50Ē tall sonosub due to the WAF and after modeling the Kappa 12Ē, it looks like a sure winner. Here are the specs from their website and also how it modeled out:

http://www.infinityspeakers.com/cara...t.aspx?ProdId='KAPPA+120.3SE'&Ser=KAP&Cat=SUB

http://manuals.harman.com/INF/CAR/Bo...s/1203se_f.pdf

3.478 cubic feet (16Ē sonotube will be ~30in tall)
Tuning frequency = 23.80 hz.
-3db point = 21.69 hz.

Infinity rates this as 92db efficient with 2.83v/1m, but thatís more like 89db 1w/1m, correct? With the price of the driver ($50 new), sonotube, MDF, carpet, and port, I can build this subwoofer for under $100! I currently own the SVS 25-31 CS+ and it sounds KILLER, but I think I can sell it for $350-$400 (itís mint) and build a few of these. This Kappa sonosub will be roughly the same size as the SVS (a few inches taller) and will also go a few db lower. I have a brand new Crown XLS402A amp which does 400x2 (4ohm) or 570x2 (2 ohm). I could run two of these off it at 4 ohms and feed them each 400 watts of power, or if I want to go insane, build 4 for $400, give each 285 watts of power (near the 300w RMS rating) and shake my whole house!

What do you guys think? Any better solutions for roughly the same money? Am I nuts? I appreciate ANY and ALL feedback so feel free to post anything youíd like. One thing that does worry me is properly setting up multiple subs. Iíve seen where a guy had 3 SVS cylinders all touching each other in a room so they werenít spread out. Iím not quite sure how to place 4 subs in one room

Thanks!
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Old 19th October 2004, 11:30 PM   #2
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*prays someone chimes in*
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Old 20th October 2004, 12:06 AM   #3
jdybnis is offline jdybnis  United States
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Quote:
Iím not quite sure how to place 4 subs in one room
For a rectangular room the best place is one sub on the center of each wall. The next best is one sub in each corner. This is according to research at Harmon International. They were trying to minimize peaks and nulls accross a wide listening position. I don't think they were using eq. There is a whitepaper on their site.

My opinion is that corners are better if you use eq.
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Old 20th October 2004, 12:39 AM   #4
Grahamt is offline Grahamt  Canada
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Hi Mazeroth,

The drivers look OK for HT use but not ideal, they are still designed for car use and are relying on cabin gain. For the amount of effort you are willing to invest in this, I think you would be happier with a better HT driver and one sub for $400. If you want a 12" for example there is the Adire Audio DPL12, the Shiva and the PE Titanics or the Blueprints from Acoustic Visions. They all have much lower resonant frequencies and more Xmax, although you couldn't buy as many, the SQ is probably better and you will have better extension. Just my 2 cents.

Gatemplin
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Old 20th October 2004, 12:52 AM   #5
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I dunno you might want to get a "proper" home theatre sub like Tempest or Shiva.

The specs they list might not be that good? Although Ive heard Kappa is quite good.

but they it will cost about 100 for those drivers (tempest).
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Old 20th October 2004, 02:07 AM   #6
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I modeled the Shiva in WinISD and compared it to the Kappa 12:

Shiva ($125)
4.380 cubic feet
22.32 tuning frequency
22.49hz (-3db)
16.6mm xmax one way
87.3 db 1w/1m

Kappa ($50) (-$75)
3.478 cubic feet (0.902 less cubic feet)
23.80 tuning frequency (+1.48)(not sure how important this figure is)
21.69hz (-3db) (0.80 lower)
13.5mm xmax one way (3.1mm less)
86.01 db 1w/1m (-1.29db ouch)(didn't trust Infinity's 89db)

Kappa has a lot lower cost and a smaller enclosure, with a lower -3db frequency. The Shiva has a lower tuning frequency, more xmax, and is more sensitive. Hmmm...what would you guys do? I currently have the SVS 25-31 CS+ and love it, but was trying to get more bang for my buck, along with learning as I build something. I was thinking even two of these for $200, with $200 left in my pocket after selling the SVS will be able to outperform the SVS. What do you think?
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Old 20th October 2004, 02:21 AM   #7
Grahamt is offline Grahamt  Canada
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I dont understand how the Kappa has a lower F3, the F3 is lower than the resonant free air frequency. That seems odd to me, maybe I'm wrong though. Are both boxes the same Q?
The Shiva should go louder with more displacement but still probably not as loud as the CS+. I think the plus is probably closer to the Tempest.
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Old 20th October 2004, 05:34 AM   #8
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Default Infinitys should work

If you can get those kappas that cheap, I'd say your going to get alot more "bang for your buck" than going with a SVS or another HT diy driver. SQ might suffer slightly and also LF extension, but if you tune low in a big box you should be able to achieve 20hz pretty easily. Personally I'd say you'll need 4 of the kappas to get outsanding bass in a room. Dont trust the power handling provided by infinity. I'd imagine you wont get past 200watts before you reach Xmax in the enclosures you're using. 150 would probably be a safe value per sub. Car audio boxes small. You're using 3.5cubes for 23hz tuning while infinity probably recomends about 1.75 cubic feet with 30hz tuning. This will decrease your dampening and give your sub the ability to reach Xmax with significantly less power.
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Old 20th October 2004, 05:46 AM   #9
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If it's going to be worthwhile, then don't you also want an increase in performance?

You could get:

$150 Adire Tempest 15"

$200 Dayton Titanic 15"
$205 Stryke AV15
$240 Blueprint 15"

$289 Adire Koda 15"

The Tempest is a great bang for buck driver, the others are great mid level drivers which are a bit more robust. The Koda stands out in terms of performance as it has XBL technology and if your budget can stretch this far then it's very tempting. If you are going to use a sonotube sub, then I think 15" drivers are better bang for buck.
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Old 25th October 2004, 04:11 AM   #10
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any update?
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