I build tempest in mid Q enclosured w/ 270 watts plate amp from PE (300-794) last few months and I'm not so happy with it's performanced.
Btw, I'm using it for 70% music, "basszzy" jazz music (no rock music) and 30% HT. Previously I'm using Velodyne sub ported(CHT-8) then replaced by this "tempest" for more SPL and better performanced as I expected. Also I'm working right now with my front speaker FE167 driver in MLTL enclosure (from Bob Brines website) thanks Bob.
So guy's help me out with my problem. Also with regards to my main (DiY) speaker, what enclosure from "adire plans" fits my needs. Just a reminder, I'm a newbie interms of technical term I need plans in building. I need to choose from this two enclosure 230L "low Q" sealed enclosure or 214L "adire alignment" in ported enclosure. Thank's and God Blessed.
Btw, I'm using it for 70% music, "basszzy" jazz music (no rock music) and 30% HT. Previously I'm using Velodyne sub ported(CHT-8) then replaced by this "tempest" for more SPL and better performanced as I expected. Also I'm working right now with my front speaker FE167 driver in MLTL enclosure (from Bob Brines website) thanks Bob.
So guy's help me out with my problem. Also with regards to my main (DiY) speaker, what enclosure from "adire plans" fits my needs. Just a reminder, I'm a newbie interms of technical term I need plans in building. I need to choose from this two enclosure 230L "low Q" sealed enclosure or 214L "adire alignment" in ported enclosure. Thank's and God Blessed.
My guess is that no one has replied yet because you didn't describe why you're not satisfied with your sub's performance.
Is it too boomy? Is that why you're considering a lower Q design? Realistically, if your current design is a sealed mid-Q design, boominess is much more likely to be coming from your room than from the subwoofer itself. It may not seem like the boominess is a room effect, but it is extremely common. Even the sub is properly positioned, many rooms have one or two major bumps or dips in the frequency response. Consider bass traps or equalizing the bass. Also, if boominess is your problem, a ported enclosure is probably not going to solve your problems.
Is there not enough very low bass? In a sealed enclosure you're going to depend on room gain for that last octave. Work on positioning. There may also be major dips in the room's response. Again, consider bass traps or equalization. Going to a ported enclosure could help here if your room is very big or you can't position the sub for a lot of room gain.
I'd work with your current sub rather than build a whole new sub, at least for now, unless there's something very wrong with your current design, such as the cabinet resonating or the Q being too high (>0.9).
Is it too boomy? Is that why you're considering a lower Q design? Realistically, if your current design is a sealed mid-Q design, boominess is much more likely to be coming from your room than from the subwoofer itself. It may not seem like the boominess is a room effect, but it is extremely common. Even the sub is properly positioned, many rooms have one or two major bumps or dips in the frequency response. Consider bass traps or equalizing the bass. Also, if boominess is your problem, a ported enclosure is probably not going to solve your problems.
Is there not enough very low bass? In a sealed enclosure you're going to depend on room gain for that last octave. Work on positioning. There may also be major dips in the room's response. Again, consider bass traps or equalization. Going to a ported enclosure could help here if your room is very big or you can't position the sub for a lot of room gain.
I'd work with your current sub rather than build a whole new sub, at least for now, unless there's something very wrong with your current design, such as the cabinet resonating or the Q being too high (>0.9).
In what way are you dissatisfied with your sub? Does it not go low enough or is the bass not punchy enough? I haven't used a Tempest (yet) but I am pretty sure that you can tune it to your taste once we figure out what it is.
By "bassy jazz" do you mean artists like Marcus Miller, Stanley Clarke and Jaco? If so you may be looking for more midbass punch like the higher Q alignment. Try putting some bricks, wood blocks or other solid object in the enclosure to reduce the effective volume nearly in half to see if this is what you are looking for. If you are looking for more extension the low Q or EBS aligments will probably suit you better.
As for the mains, you need to define what you are looking for so we can help you choose.
By "bassy jazz" do you mean artists like Marcus Miller, Stanley Clarke and Jaco? If so you may be looking for more midbass punch like the higher Q alignment. Try putting some bricks, wood blocks or other solid object in the enclosure to reduce the effective volume nearly in half to see if this is what you are looking for. If you are looking for more extension the low Q or EBS aligments will probably suit you better.
As for the mains, you need to define what you are looking for so we can help you choose.
Thank's guys for your reply. Sorry, but I told you I'm not that good in technical term but I'll try. I listen to jazz music like "dianakrall" "norah jones", christy baron and patricia barbers
also my MidQ is too boomy and lot of mid punch and it won't go that low I mean It roll off too early. It sound tight but not us tight as my previous velodyne(cht_8")vented(my referenced). Also it sound bloated when I crunk up the volume. And it's located in the front right corner of the room. I build this enclosure following adire plan no added braces and used two standard pillow for stuffing. plate amp mounted on the back. My setting from my avr from LFE 80hz and "0" sub level for music and -4 in movie and from the plate amp is 10 o' clock set to 40hz(music) and 160hz(movie) and phase control set to "0". and my room dimension is 10'h x 13'w x 32'L (open to the dinning). Hope this help.
also my MidQ is too boomy and lot of mid punch and it won't go that low I mean It roll off too early. It sound tight but not us tight as my previous velodyne(cht_8")vented(my referenced). Also it sound bloated when I crunk up the volume. And it's located in the front right corner of the room. I build this enclosure following adire plan no added braces and used two standard pillow for stuffing. plate amp mounted on the back. My setting from my avr from LFE 80hz and "0" sub level for music and -4 in movie and from the plate amp is 10 o' clock set to 40hz(music) and 160hz(movie) and phase control set to "0". and my room dimension is 10'h x 13'w x 32'L (open to the dinning). Hope this help.
from that, I'd go along with the suggestion to try different placement. A low Q or EBS alighnment will probably be more to your liking if you get to building a new box.
Do your main speakers go down to 40 Hz AND is the receiver set so front speakers = large? If not, you are creating a hole in the response between the 80 Hz cutoff of the mains and the upper end of the sub's response when you set its crossover to 40. You may be cranking the sub level up to compensate. This might cause the boominess that you describe when you crank it up. I'd try setting the sub's crossover 80 and leave it there whether music or HT.
Does the sub amp have a built in boost? if so you probably want to disable it.
Edit: Just looked at the data sheet for your amp - it rolls off 3 db between 30 and 20 hz. You might want to follow their instructions and add 2-3 db of boost at the bottom to counteract the early effect of the rumble filter.
Do your main speakers go down to 40 Hz AND is the receiver set so front speakers = large? If not, you are creating a hole in the response between the 80 Hz cutoff of the mains and the upper end of the sub's response when you set its crossover to 40. You may be cranking the sub level up to compensate. This might cause the boominess that you describe when you crank it up. I'd try setting the sub's crossover 80 and leave it there whether music or HT.
Does the sub amp have a built in boost? if so you probably want to disable it.
Edit: Just looked at the data sheet for your amp - it rolls off 3 db between 30 and 20 hz. You might want to follow their instructions and add 2-3 db of boost at the bottom to counteract the early effect of the rumble filter.
According to LspCAD Tempest in 237 liter sealed box Bessel alignment Q= .577
F3 = 37.6
F6 = 25.4
F10 = 18.0
If that doesn't seem very low take a look at this chart.
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/pjay99site/Instrumentranges.htm
There really isn't very much going on below 40 Hz.
F3 = 37.6
F6 = 25.4
F10 = 18.0
If that doesn't seem very low take a look at this chart.
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/pjay99site/Instrumentranges.htm
There really isn't very much going on below 40 Hz.
Fostex Mains
I think the match up with the Fostex mains may be challenging.
The two probably sound like they are from different planets.
I would think the only way to set it up is with the single sub moved out of the corner and centered between the mains as much as possible. Under the TV, somewhere?
Also, I don't know if your receiver allows for "CD direct", "DVD Direct" or not, but this will bypass the HT settings (and crossover) for music or film. I have this on mine, and you can set it up without interference this way. Then compare with the presets.
I think the 40 Hz setting for music is too low for the Fostex pair. Try raising this cut-off all the way up to 160 Hz, then gradually reduce it while listening. Not really sure which crossover setting is being used, sub or AV receiver.
I wonder too about the sub enclosure. Is it overstuffed? You could pull the Tempest and remove some of the stuffing to see if that helps, although I'm sure Adire has that worked out. Is it possible the box is leaking?
Timn8ter--I would agree with the chart if not for the fact of HT use here. Anything can happen then, at really low frequencies and quite often, too.
Tim
I think the match up with the Fostex mains may be challenging.
The two probably sound like they are from different planets.
I would think the only way to set it up is with the single sub moved out of the corner and centered between the mains as much as possible. Under the TV, somewhere?
Also, I don't know if your receiver allows for "CD direct", "DVD Direct" or not, but this will bypass the HT settings (and crossover) for music or film. I have this on mine, and you can set it up without interference this way. Then compare with the presets.
I think the 40 Hz setting for music is too low for the Fostex pair. Try raising this cut-off all the way up to 160 Hz, then gradually reduce it while listening. Not really sure which crossover setting is being used, sub or AV receiver.
I wonder too about the sub enclosure. Is it overstuffed? You could pull the Tempest and remove some of the stuffing to see if that helps, although I'm sure Adire has that worked out. Is it possible the box is leaking?
Timn8ter--I would agree with the chart if not for the fact of HT use here. Anything can happen then, at really low frequencies and quite often, too.
Tim
Thank's Tim and others, but want to clarify my brine's fostex is not yet finish. I (stated on my first post ).I'm still waiting to dry up polyurithane coated on the front solid wood panel . Right now I'm using my surround speaker as my main, temporarily. Also you were right about moving the sub in between the main spkr for better integration, but tell you guy's moving this sub is really pain and my wife always laughed at me everytime I moved it around. Last night I watch movie titled "THE day after tomrrow" I set the sub amp vol. knob to 9 o'clock setting and to avr sub vol. set to "0" and the main vol. set to "-18" it sound great, got bass extention(got hope) specially in the start of the movie when the ice start to cracked down. But it lack in "spl". Everytime I move the sub amp vol. to 10 o'clock and even I set the avr sub vol. set to "-4" the sub start to go crazy I mean you will hear bloated sound box rattle "unquality" bass sound (both movie/music listening). I find no leak on the box. I checked every screw from the driver to the amp, it's real tight. What I'm bothering right now is the plateamp, if the "bass boost" is disable or not (it's just me). Also the box bracing I'm going to add and doubleling the top and bottom(driver mount) panels but after I finishing my main spkr. Thank's.....great forum.
p.s. I'll get back with pic's
. Right now I'm using my surround speaker as my main, temporarily. Also you were right about moving the sub in between the main spkr for better integration, but tell you guy's moving this sub is really pain and my wife always laughed at me everytime I moved it around. Last night I watch movie titled "THE day after tomrrow" I set the sub amp vol. knob to 9 o'clock setting and to avr sub vol. set to "0" and the main vol. set to "-18" it sound great, got bass extention(got hope) specially in the start of the movie when the ice start to cracked down. But it lack in "spl". Everytime I move the sub amp vol. to 10 o'clock and even I set the avr sub vol. set to "-4" the sub start to go crazy I mean you will hear bloated sound box rattle "unquality" bass sound (both movie/music listening). I find no leak on the box. I checked every screw from the driver to the amp, it's real tight. What I'm bothering right now is the plateamp, if the "bass boost" is disable or not (it's just me). Also the box bracing I'm going to add and doubleling the top and bottom(driver mount) panels but after I finishing my main spkr. Thank's.....great forum.p.s. I'll get back with pic's
Well, the best performing Adire designed enclosure that I've used is the vented low Q sub, but we've had this discussion before.
You may find you don't want to use a sub for music when you get your FT-1600s completed. Now that I have the FE207E pipes done I've removed the sub from my music system. I actually stopped using it when I built the FE127E pipes.
You may find you don't want to use a sub for music when you get your FT-1600s completed. Now that I have the FE207E pipes done I've removed the sub from my music system. I actually stopped using it when I built the FE127E pipes.
What kind of speakers are you using for mains? If they are dipole or bipole type rear speakers, then all bets are off. If they are bass reflex or MLTL, try plugging the port, turning it into a sealed box. Then run the sub at a higher crossover point. You may be surprised at how much better it sounds.
Timn8ter said:
Kick drums are not on the list. Even "easy listening" jazz and rock doesn't sound right without the thud at the bottom of the kick drum. Listen to The Boxer by Simon and Garfunkle on a system that gives up at 40Hz. The Boxer lacks punch. (Snort.)
Bass guitar. The low E string is 41.3 Hz in theory, but it can be tuned lower. And there's synthesized bass. And in a symphony orchestra, there's that grat big bass drum.
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