From a youngish age i've always been told that when embarking on new adventures/projects one should always KISS, keep it simple stupid.
So after digesting that advice i have decided to build a subwoofer or a pair, to aid my bass.
My current listening room is small, 4 metres X 3 metres. I own a pair of KEF Cresta 2's, a NAD C320 amp, and NAD C521i Cd player.
My Cresta's are placed on the floor, on floorstander stands, near the wall - and still do not produce enough bass. If i turn the bass up on my NAD C320 amp, or move the speakers closer to the wall the sounds becomes slightly muddled, so i want bo build myself a subwoofer.
I know by now there are probably many old wizenend speaker building guru's shouting GO TO THE FAQ'S, have u searched the site, have u searched the net, tried google???? etc.
I have but have been unable to find a suitable, design, which would be.
Cheap as possible, simple and effective, small.
Go low but not stupidly low - im not a number freak but something that was 0db @ 30hz would be nice - if this is unrealsitc tell me - im here to learn.
Be useable if i upgrade my main speakers/build some new ones.
The designs i'm considering are.
2 passive subwoofers, to go under my cresta's to act as stands and to increase bass. (Like the mission passive subs 730ps?)
Utilizing 2x8"' or 2x10", or perhaps just one driver in each sub.
But i think that the crossover would muddle the sound, as a signal would be sent to the passive subs, which would then let the cresta's handle 90hz and upwards or similar frequency.
Also would my 30 watt amp be enough to power the 2 subs and the cresta's?
Drivers = At a guess between
£60 for 2 larger drivers (correct me if im wrong)
£160 for 4 drivers
But no amp costs
2 active subs that are daisy chained together, via a BK Electronics plate amp.
Which would go under my cresta's, i'd send a signal from my NAD amp to the plate amp which has a crossover inside - am i wrong, please correct if so.
Drivers = £60-£160
Amp = £120 for 100w
= £150 for 200w
Passive Radiator Sub, utilizing a Peerless XLS 10" and peerless PR/PR's, i've seen a design on the web for this sub but can't remember where.
Drivers = £120
Amp = £120 for 100w
= £150 for 200w
BK electronics offer one of their 200w plate amps a XLS10" for £214.65, which they say gives a flatish response from 15hz to 50hz at 90db or above.
Perhaps this is the solution, what do you think? Has anyone bougth from BK before has anyone got this sub?
At the bottom is the response graph for this setup, attained from
http://www.bkelec.com/Diy/xls10.htm
1 Sealed linkwitz transform subwoofer.
The last is probably the most difficult to build but seems to satisfy some other criteria, in-sofar that they can be built relativley small, with very usefull and tunefull output.
I am aware that i can get a linkwitz transform pcb from Elliots Sound Products ESP in Aus, but i dont have the faintest idea how to implement it with a plate amp.
What driver would i use for the sealed sub, my choice would be a Peerless XLS10" which i can buy for £90
Drivers = £90
Amp = £150 for 200w
= £185 for 300w
= £220 for 500w
I believe i would need more power due to the equalization that occurs with the circuit.
In essence what do you Guru's think of my ideas, what's feasible what's not.
How much do you think they'd cost.
Where would you buy the parts from IN THE UK.
What drivers would you use.
Do i need that much power, do i need more power.
Suggestions on any UK sourceable drivers, as i've had trouble finding a variety of subs in the UK. 10", 12", 15" where can i buy them.
Should i just buy something commercial (boo's and hisses from the crowd)
I have a friend who can build me the darn thing/s he built a coffin in 4 hours, and fits electric fences for a living.
So after digesting that advice i have decided to build a subwoofer or a pair, to aid my bass.
My current listening room is small, 4 metres X 3 metres. I own a pair of KEF Cresta 2's, a NAD C320 amp, and NAD C521i Cd player.
My Cresta's are placed on the floor, on floorstander stands, near the wall - and still do not produce enough bass. If i turn the bass up on my NAD C320 amp, or move the speakers closer to the wall the sounds becomes slightly muddled, so i want bo build myself a subwoofer.
I know by now there are probably many old wizenend speaker building guru's shouting GO TO THE FAQ'S, have u searched the site, have u searched the net, tried google???? etc.
I have but have been unable to find a suitable, design, which would be.
Cheap as possible, simple and effective, small.
Go low but not stupidly low - im not a number freak but something that was 0db @ 30hz would be nice - if this is unrealsitc tell me - im here to learn.
Be useable if i upgrade my main speakers/build some new ones.
The designs i'm considering are.
2 passive subwoofers, to go under my cresta's to act as stands and to increase bass. (Like the mission passive subs 730ps?)
Utilizing 2x8"' or 2x10", or perhaps just one driver in each sub.
But i think that the crossover would muddle the sound, as a signal would be sent to the passive subs, which would then let the cresta's handle 90hz and upwards or similar frequency.
Also would my 30 watt amp be enough to power the 2 subs and the cresta's?
Drivers = At a guess between
£60 for 2 larger drivers (correct me if im wrong)
£160 for 4 drivers
But no amp costs
2 active subs that are daisy chained together, via a BK Electronics plate amp.
Which would go under my cresta's, i'd send a signal from my NAD amp to the plate amp which has a crossover inside - am i wrong, please correct if so.
Drivers = £60-£160
Amp = £120 for 100w
= £150 for 200w
Passive Radiator Sub, utilizing a Peerless XLS 10" and peerless PR/PR's, i've seen a design on the web for this sub but can't remember where.
Drivers = £120
Amp = £120 for 100w
= £150 for 200w
BK electronics offer one of their 200w plate amps a XLS10" for £214.65, which they say gives a flatish response from 15hz to 50hz at 90db or above.
Perhaps this is the solution, what do you think? Has anyone bougth from BK before has anyone got this sub?
At the bottom is the response graph for this setup, attained from
http://www.bkelec.com/Diy/xls10.htm
1 Sealed linkwitz transform subwoofer.
The last is probably the most difficult to build but seems to satisfy some other criteria, in-sofar that they can be built relativley small, with very usefull and tunefull output.
I am aware that i can get a linkwitz transform pcb from Elliots Sound Products ESP in Aus, but i dont have the faintest idea how to implement it with a plate amp.
What driver would i use for the sealed sub, my choice would be a Peerless XLS10" which i can buy for £90
Drivers = £90
Amp = £150 for 200w
= £185 for 300w
= £220 for 500w
I believe i would need more power due to the equalization that occurs with the circuit.
In essence what do you Guru's think of my ideas, what's feasible what's not.
How much do you think they'd cost.
Where would you buy the parts from IN THE UK.
What drivers would you use.
Do i need that much power, do i need more power.
Suggestions on any UK sourceable drivers, as i've had trouble finding a variety of subs in the UK. 10", 12", 15" where can i buy them.
Should i just buy something commercial (boo's and hisses from the crowd)
I have a friend who can build me the darn thing/s he built a coffin in 4 hours, and fits electric fences for a living.
Attachments
A sub is a necessity, spending a fortune isn't. A separate amp is also a necessity, but also need not be terribly expensive. A single sub will do, but a pair is OK. You can power both from a single channel sub amp, as LF information is summed anyway. The best way to do it is with an electronic crossover that will take the LF load off your existing amp and speakers; using a 'plate' sub amp with internal crossover doesn't take all the load off your main amp, but it does relieve the speakers at least. Don't even think about using your existing amp with passive crossovers; the crossover component cost is more than that of a sub amp.
If you're an experienced woodworker check out sub plans available on line. One such site is my own, where I currently have one HT sub plan (AutoTuba) available. It's small, efficient and quite inexpensive, but being a horn requires good woodworking skills. If you're not big with sawdust try a kit; there are plenty out there. I would say for your system a ten inch driver would suffice, certainly if you use a pair. For a very small cabinet there's an eight that would work for you in a 1 cu.ft. box (and in my AutoTuba as well), the Tang Band W8 740C.
I can't say for the UK, but here very good sub amps can be had for $150 US. 100 to 150 watts should do, that's plenty to more than keep up with the 30 watts of your mains.
If you're an experienced woodworker check out sub plans available on line. One such site is my own, where I currently have one HT sub plan (AutoTuba) available. It's small, efficient and quite inexpensive, but being a horn requires good woodworking skills. If you're not big with sawdust try a kit; there are plenty out there. I would say for your system a ten inch driver would suffice, certainly if you use a pair. For a very small cabinet there's an eight that would work for you in a 1 cu.ft. box (and in my AutoTuba as well), the Tang Band W8 740C.
I can't say for the UK, but here very good sub amps can be had for $150 US. 100 to 150 watts should do, that's plenty to more than keep up with the 30 watts of your mains.
Passive subs are just pants, and with just a 30W amp they are double pants 
One important detail you missed was is the sub for music or home cinema, or both?
The choice of drive units (especially subs) in the UK is not as good as the US, however, BK offer some good units at sensible prices. BK basically do a kit sub using the XLS10 that looks pretty good. I think the XLS10 + PR is pretty darned good.
You can do a sealed 12 inch sub on a budget from BK using their 100W amp module, BSB12-100 and Linkwitz Transform (ESP), but it will run out of grunt for cinema.
Nightfire Acoustics (PA Direct) also do a good range of drive units that would be suitable.
One important detail you missed was is the sub for music or home cinema, or both?
The choice of drive units (especially subs) in the UK is not as good as the US, however, BK offer some good units at sensible prices. BK basically do a kit sub using the XLS10 that looks pretty good. I think the XLS10 + PR is pretty darned good.
You can do a sealed 12 inch sub on a budget from BK using their 100W amp module, BSB12-100 and Linkwitz Transform (ESP), but it will run out of grunt for cinema.
Nightfire Acoustics (PA Direct) also do a good range of drive units that would be suitable.
The Sub would be for music now, with plans of expanding to a fully fledged HT setup.
For which i would build the 5 speakers, and then use the cresta's as my computer speakers via, an old amp.
Do you know of a website, or could you or anyone else on the forum walk me through how i would implement the linkwitz transform.
Similarly do you know of a guide (Link please), of how to build the peerless xls10 + PR.
p.s. can u point me towards some diy uk sub builders.
Cheers
For which i would build the 5 speakers, and then use the cresta's as my computer speakers via, an old amp.
Do you know of a website, or could you or anyone else on the forum walk me through how i would implement the linkwitz transform.
Similarly do you know of a guide (Link please), of how to build the peerless xls10 + PR.
p.s. can u point me towards some diy uk sub builders.
Cheers
If one doesn't have a lot of of woodworking skills Sonotube is a very wise choice IMO. Since the cost of drivers from www.adireaudio.com are fairly affordable and Sonotube is also, I would choose this as teh eaisest way to go and not have something that will need to be updated. You can get a large cabinet in a small footprint for around $500-$600 U.S. that will go work for a very long time with any application and a large variety of main speakers.
That's not a bad price per se, but there's a lot to be said for small horn loaded subs for those who can manage to build them. I have a $30 MCM 55-2421 in my own AutoTuba, and the box itself cost about forty more. With its 100dB/watt average sensitivity and a bandwidth down to 20 Hz. I doubt very much that anyone would soon need an update.
Don't you just love it when people in the good ol US-of-A post stuff about Sonotubes (which I've never seen here in the UK) and American drivers
seekingwisdom,
The cheap sub I mentioned using the BSB12-100 will not cut it for cinema. Linktwitz Tranfsorms are explained on the Master himselfs site and also covered on the ESP site you allude to have already been to. They are not trivial things though.
As for XLS10 + PR, I think 5th Element on here made one and he's in the UK.
All the UK sub builders I know of are on here
Brian Steele's site is a good starting point, as well as searching and browsing this forum.
I personally would avoid bandpass boxes as they are lower quality and the forced upper frequency limit can be troublesome for integration.
seekingwisdom,
The cheap sub I mentioned using the BSB12-100 will not cut it for cinema. Linktwitz Tranfsorms are explained on the Master himselfs site and also covered on the ESP site you allude to have already been to. They are not trivial things though.
As for XLS10 + PR, I think 5th Element on here made one and he's in the UK.
All the UK sub builders I know of are on here
Brian Steele's site is a good starting point, as well as searching and browsing this forum.
I personally would avoid bandpass boxes as they are lower quality and the forced upper frequency limit can be troublesome for integration.
Hello,
I highly suggest that you go for the Silver Flute W20 subwoofer. Perhaps a pair of 2 4-ohm versions in a push-push (sealed) enclosure will keep you happy. Powered, by any cheap sub-amp that produces reasonable power above 50W RMS. They are about $40 CDN each and can be had from Solen or Madisound. The subwoofer enclosure will need to be less than 30L. (if sealed) and the subwoofers aren't obsessed with producing knock your socks off bass. Instead, I find them easy to live with and match with. For the price, you can't go wrong.
I highly suggest that you go for the Silver Flute W20 subwoofer. Perhaps a pair of 2 4-ohm versions in a push-push (sealed) enclosure will keep you happy. Powered, by any cheap sub-amp that produces reasonable power above 50W RMS. They are about $40 CDN each and can be had from Solen or Madisound. The subwoofer enclosure will need to be less than 30L. (if sealed) and the subwoofers aren't obsessed with producing knock your socks off bass. Instead, I find them easy to live with and match with. For the price, you can't go wrong.
BillFitzmaurice said:
I can mail a small package from where I live an hour's drive from Toronto to London, or some place else in England for half the price in postage than it costs me to mail it to Toronto! This is a fact. Our friend across the pond shud look into buying from a Canadian distributor. Whaz the name of that speaker driver supplier in Vancouver, BC?
Adire has dealers selling their drivers in Austria, Sweden and some other countries as well in Europe and in Africa.
I don't know if they have sonotube in the UK or not, it never occured to me that they wouldn't since I assume they have to mold concrete there just like we do. It's a very useful product and inexpenisve. Why not do a search for it on the internet and see what you find?
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