What amp for my subs?

[paulspencer]

Thanks for the suggestions Kittle, those plate amps look good except for 2 things:

1. my design doesn't allow any space to mount a plate amp
2. that's a lot of amp to ship (shipping charge etc)

I would need two and it would end up quite expensive.

Originally posted by hunter audio
this driver may have been assembled in usa but most of the parts seems to have been sourced (if not the entire driver itself) from taiwan ... your parts also resemble to be used in car audio application - therefore the need of all that power
...
sorry if i went a bit hard on the driver - I am assuming if the suspension to be stiff

The driver came from Stryke Audio, now Audio Elegance:

Stryke Audio AV series

It was manufactured by TC sounds

If I'm not mistaken, TC sounds is in the US. I see no reason to suggest that the parts came from elsewhere, perhaps I could be wrong, but I certainly see no reason to say the Shiva is better built. The AV12 has a more durable rubber surround and a cast basket. Overall very solid and well built, it is quite impressive to see.

It is not a dedicated car audio driver. Because it was designed for high output, they chose with the DVC to design for 1 ohm or 4 ohms to cover both car audio and home theatre. You will notice the low fs ~22 Hz - hence designed for HT primarily.

Yes it is a very stiff driver. The reason it requires so much power is not that it was designed for automotive use. It was designed for relatively small enclosures, in particular for use with passive radiators. The combination of a smallish enclosure and such high excursion means a lot of power is needed to move the stiff cone. This is one of the tradeoffs necessary to pull off this much output in a small box. It is in between the Peerless XLS and the Shiva in terms of required box size. This is also what allows me to come up with the box design that I have on my site - if I had the Shiva, I would need a bigger box and the proportions of the box using that curved design wouldn't look right. In my case I think I have managed to design a vented box (very difficult for this driver). I do need to test it with a decent amp so I can be sure I don't have turbulence problems.

[paulspencer]

Originally posted by HiFiNutNut
One option is to build Randy Slone's Totem-Pole amp that can go up to 800w.

I had a look and it seems interesting although VERY little information on the site. Is there more info elsewhere?

Originally posted by Spearmint
Let me know if you are interested.

Dick

Dick, yes I'm interested I believe Crown amps are impressive, however $1500 is quite a bit above my budget. For less than $800 I can get the Behringer Europower with plenty of power. Still, if you think it's worth inquiring ...

Originally posted by LuxmanZ504
You could buy my sub-amp for a reasonable price...

...

You can also use it in class A mode stereo or mono.

No shipping! =)

No shipping? Are you sure about that?! :O
Do you have a link to some info on that amp?

Originally posted by JasonL
Those plate amps look a little small and iffy... i don't see any heat sink at all to dissipate any power from the outputs.

It's a class G, high efficiency, a bit like a class D. They are so much more efficient that their heat sink requirements are much much less - the back plate will be a heat sink even though it doesn't have fins. If it were a regular class AB amp then that would be different ...

Originally posted by JasonL
What about building a pair of amps from www.aussieamplifiers.com.. i build the n-channel and it worked pretty dam good.

I have seen the site long ago and was interested. Twice I have emailed asking a few simple questions, with no response. This suggests to me that if I as a potential customer receive no response, what would happen if I had already purchased, then needed questions resolved! Very disapointing ...

Originally posted by JasonL

I like your webpage a lot good work and i like your idea of your subwoofer enclosure's a lot too.. Great idea.. Got any drawing's?

Thanks, it's always good to get positive comments
I havent fully resolved the design yet. Even once I have built it, I doubt anyone would ever build it exactly the same if I provided drawings. People always want to change something (different driver etc) and even the new version of the driver has different parameters. Anyone who is willing to go to the effort of building such a tricky box will no doubt want to change it in some way.

After I have built it I will probably provide construction pics, maybe even some 3D cross sections done in CAD. I might even do an animation of the driver moving to xmax with a 3D section showing all the moving parts, just for fun.

[Spearmint]

Paul

Dick, yes I'm interested I believe Crown amps are impressive, however $1500 is quite a bit above my budget. For less than $800 I can get the Behringer Europower with plenty of power. Still, if you think it's worth inquiring ...

I realise the Behringer are great bang for buck, although the fans are apparently very noisy, in saying this you can change them for quieter ones. Where as the Crown K1 has no fans, I guess it comes down to whether you tolerate fan noise.

Crown K1

These amps retail at around 3k in OZ, so if it outside the budget no problems, I just wanted to pass on the info, I have no vested interest in the sale.

Dick

[imix500]

Keep in mind that if this is for portable use, you rarely see Behringer in any serious touring rack. It's good cheap stuff, but it doesn't hold up well. The Europower might look attractive, but do some serious research on how well the hold up with moderate use. Again IF it's gonna be portable. If it is going to sit in a living room it would probably be fine. There's no reason however, besides cost, that a used Crown Macro or Microtech or Crest 8001 or CA series wouldn't be a smart buy.

[hunter audio]

hi

i was not talking about the whole driver being designed for car audio - but only the cone - it i think is to double in car audio as well as high power subs -

regarding the rubber surround u will find that it is a thick - synthetic rubber surround - the type required for car audio

discerning hi-fi uses light soft natural rubber surrounds - the roll profile looks attractive but that is all totally dependant on the suspensn linearity requirements

as for the chassis if it was stanless steel or titanium - it will have nothing to do with the sound quality

it is a run of the mill chassis made to accomodate all types of cones therefore when u look at it from behind u will find so many steps to accomodate spiders - for different cone heights

it is not a speacially ordered chassis just for this driver

a common one to suit quite a few cones - in a spoked design

next the motor structure -

the XBL 2 motor structure is a revolution for its linear bl over an extreme excursions (adire abudio)

as for the dual voice coil its no big thing - its a four layer coil with 4 terminal to be paralleled or series - ed as per user

if it was a dual voice coil with a differential coil - then it is something - your motorstructure is quite a common one

as the vent gap s quite small and the material has not been dug out to concentrate field strength at the magnetic gap - u will be having losses with your magnet supplying such an heavy back plate / pole

suranjan das gupta

transducer design engineer

[LuxmanZ504]

Hi Paul!

Not for now, but I´ll look around...
I could always scan the manual, but then I need some time.
Maybe you could e-mail Luxman for some info..?
It´s a quite uncommon amp. I believe it only exists about 10-20 of them in Sweden. If I´m not mistaking they sold them as a DIY kit in the early 80´s.

[mikee12345]

you have to ask yourself the following questions

1) do i want to meet or exceed my xmax rating
i certainly dont.

2)should i spend thousands for very little gain
it doesnt make much sense

400w-800w-1600w....

Note that above 1/2 the rms rating power compression(depending on what rating is) will rid you of the top few db that you were franticaly searching for.

alot of flopping around,for just 3-6db more output

if you REALLY want to use all the excursion put them on open baffle!

Cheers

[paulspencer]

Originally posted by LuxmanZ504
Not for now, but I´ll look around...

That would be great thanks

Mike,

I know you're a horn guy so this might seem a silly approach to you. However, this is a HT and music sub, and what I want from it is clear - I want it to be fairly compact, elegant & stylish, have 20 Hz extention (or very close) and high output. According to my priorities I believe I have the best fit.

Originally posted by mikee12345
you have to ask yourself the following questions

1) do i want to meet or exceed my xmax rating
i certainly dont.

yes and no ...

What I want is an amp that can push the drivers to xmax and beyond. Then I don't have to worry about clipping, it's simply a matter of being careful that the drivers aren't pushed to over-excursion. I don't intend to push them to xmax continuously, it's more a question of headroom - to handle the burst of LF energy in movies, especially when it's not a familiar movie and I don't know when and how loud are the booms and explosions.

Originally posted by LuxmanZ504
2)should i spend thousands for very little gain
it doesnt make much sense

400w-800w-1600w....

Note that above 1/2 the rms rating power compression(depending on what rating is) will rid you of the top few db that you were franticaly searching for.

alot of flopping around,for just 3-6db more output

if you REALLY want to use all the excursion put them on open baffle!

I'm not going to spend thousands! ...

Frantically? Let's not go that far!

No, I don't want to use all the excursion just for the sake of it. It comes down to designing the integration of the parts of a subwoofer system to have a good match. I bought a high excursion driver and I don't want to be limited by amplifier power. The drivers can actually handle more like 700 watts from a thermal/electrical point of view but 500 watts is what is recommended by the supplier when excursion is considered.

[paulspencer]

Originally posted by mikee12345
alot of flopping around,for just 3-6db more output

yes, but us DIYers are a bit like that, we do a lot of messing around just to get a little bit more than we have. Afterall, isn't the blurb "projects by the fanatics, for the fanatics?"

Yes, it's double the excursion for 6db more output, but you have to admit, 46mm of excursion does look pretty good!

[Spearmint]

Paul...

If you haven't read this review check it out on the Behringer EP2500 amp.

http://home.mn.rr.com/hometheater/Beh2500.htm

Sounds like a good buy.

Dick