)
^ There isn't one! I also near lost my mind trying to find dimensions for the 15" and dual 12" versions that Art spoke of.
He told me that they are the same dimensions, just a different driver mounting. I guess horn design doesn't quite follow the same Fb rules as ported BR design.
Art also mentioned that he HAS built a slightly smaller version of the Keystone, though again I think that only affects LF extension, not driver choice.
Hopefully, he will be along shortly and clarify this. (A par of 15" Keystones, with that Radian 2216 neo, would probably be some serious kit, even the small version.)
He told me that they are the same dimensions, just a different driver mounting. I guess horn design doesn't quite follow the same Fb rules as ported BR design.
Art also mentioned that he HAS built a slightly smaller version of the Keystone, though again I think that only affects LF extension, not driver choice.
Hopefully, he will be along shortly and clarify this. (A par of 15" Keystones, with that Radian 2216 neo, would probably be some serious kit, even the small version.)
There is this possible option - make part of the side of the TH removable, like illustrated in the attached diagram. If you then turn the TH around and then rotate the TH so its mouth is facing down (and therefore blocked by the floor), and finally remove the side panel as shown, that will affectively move the mouth to the side, and the box's "depth" will now be 22". Stack two of these side-by side and you'll also get some midbass gain towards the front.
The removable panel should have the same area as the TH's horn for this to work without having a significant negative impact on the TH's performance.
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Brian, yes, that's exactly what I had asked about earlier.
I know one of Danley's smaller subs has this feature, where you can change the location. (probably the TH mini) IIRC, the frequency response is slightly different, but not significantly so.
In this case, the sub also ends up wider than it is taller, which is good in terms of seeing the band on stage.
Thanks for that diagram, it helps to conceptualize it.
I know one of Danley's smaller subs has this feature, where you can change the location. (probably the TH mini) IIRC, the frequency response is slightly different, but not significantly so.
In this case, the sub also ends up wider than it is taller, which is good in terms of seeing the band on stage.
Thanks for that diagram, it helps to conceptualize it.
Thinking about it again, I wouldn't extend the side-mouth to the end that way, because the box will likely flex because the edges of the mouth will not be braced. I'd brace around the mouth and cut the removable side panel as shown, so the mouth (whether it be on the front or the side) remains properly braced.
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1) As I wrote in the OP of the Keystone thread:"Comparative tests using the Keystone Sub loaded with an 18 inch B&C18SW125 (four ohm nominal), a 15 inch Eminence 4015LF (eight ohm), and two Eminence Lab 12 (6/2 =3 ohm) were conducted in March of 2011.
The same 16.6 inch diameter cut out was used in each case, the 4015LF used a “doughnut” adapter, the Lab 12s used an adapter that centered the two speakers on the cut out and provided a stand off so they would not slap at high excursions."
For some reason, you thought there were different cabinets built, then wrote in multiple threads about the 12" and 15" as if they were when they weren't, which seems to have also confused others.
I have suggested that the Keystone cabinet width dimension could be reduced with a reduction of output, (also requiring an adjustment of the exit dimensions), but have not done it myself.
The Fb of both TH and BR designs are determined by the enclosure, not the driver. Whether the driver works well with the Fb and box volume is a different issue.
2) I have not built a "slightly smaller version of the Keystone", though have built a 2x10" Keystone of 5.17 cubic feet (gross) about 1/3 the size of the standard Keystone. I also have built the slightly taller "B-Low" version of the Keystone.
3)Since the neo Radian 2216 Xmax is unfortunately listed incorrectly on their spec sheet as double what it is, output using them would be quite a bit less than with the less expensive B&C drivers suggested.
Art
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"Since the neo Radian 2216 Xmax is unfortunately listed incorrectly on their spec sheet as double what it is, output using them would be quite a bit less than with the less expensive B&C drivers suggested."
I thought it looked too good to be true, esp given that driver's shallow depth, but how do you know this for certain?
I thought it looked too good to be true, esp given that driver's shallow depth, but how do you know this for certain?
See post #37.
Having seen photos of the suspension and magnet depth and recalling Charlie Laub's report from Radian we can be certain Radian has simply not corrected old typographic mistakes on their 15" & 18" drivers spec sheets.
Art
And you're sure it was the 2216 Neo, not the older ferrite version?
Or perhaps you're thinking of the 2218 Neo, for which I CAN find several thread about its Xmax. (None to be found regarding the 15")
I HAVE read other reports over a number of years, about Radian grossly fudging various numbers. If you guys are right, then how do they get away with this? And why don't the retailers update their data? Surely it's their reputations on the line.
- Even the weight of this driver varies, with most retailer claiming 14 lbs (- possibly the original Radian spec? ) and the Radian site saying a much more believable 20 lbs. Very odd.
So.... is Radian not to be trusted, in general? (or are you guys actually referring to the older driver?)
Or perhaps you're thinking of the 2218 Neo, for which I CAN find several thread about its Xmax. (None to be found regarding the 15")
I HAVE read other reports over a number of years, about Radian grossly fudging various numbers. If you guys are right, then how do they get away with this? And why don't the retailers update their data? Surely it's their reputations on the line.
- Even the weight of this driver varies, with most retailer claiming 14 lbs (- possibly the original Radian spec? ) and the Radian site saying a much more believable 20 lbs. Very odd.
So.... is Radian not to be trusted, in general? (or are you guys actually referring to the older driver?)
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1) The discussion originally was around the 2218 Neo, but the 2216 Neo share the same magnet structure and surround design.
The ferrite 2216 has only .187 inch Xmax, (4.75mm), so going to 10.65mm Xmax could be considered a large difference, around 6 dB more potential output.
2)The Radian neo 18" was discussed and dismissed as too pricey for the displacement. I'd forgot that discussion, but the same applies to the Neo 2216.
3) Because nobody can enforce corrections to data sheets.
4) Retailers can't update information that manufacturers don't change.
5) Oh, well, "Specifications subject to change without notice".
6) From their reputation I'd trust them to make high quality drivers, but I would not trust the accuracy of their spec sheets, there are too many obvious mistakes.
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