You may not realize what a big question you've raised.As I understand it, the OP isn't playing recordings. He's building a virtual instrument.
First, strictly speaking, he is playing recordings. And I believe he even has a choice of recordings of pure pipes or pipes as they sound in big churches, you might say, I think, sort of. Even for an entirely synthetic Hammond organ tone generator, the following comments apply.
Making music is a different universe; it is different than playing sounds in order to reproduce music as heard in its normal setting (which he is asking to do) and which is the innocent Nirvana of nearly all those at this website.
What you have raised is no different than playing your clarinet in a small room. Organ or clarinet, you are playing in a small room and that's making music. Again, you can season the sound to tickle your imagination that you are hearing organ sound as you might in a big church*. But you are hearing that in the inescapable acoustic perceptual environment of a small room....
B.
*Art seems to have a good imagination
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As I understand it, the OP isn't playing recordings. He's building a virtual instrument.
hollowboy, you are correct, the virtual organs that I have been speaking of, are exactly the same in operation as a pipe organ...even being capable of being connected via MIDI to pipe chambers and playing a real pipe organ, but instead of playing pipes, it is playing sample recording of each individual pipe, in loops with attacks and let-offs all put together by the company putting out the sample set. Your experience (the organist's), is exactly that of playing a pipe organ, or even a later model electronic organs with AGO (American Guild of Organists) standards. Here is an example of a very nice (and successful) virtual organ build. Many higher-end artists have played this organ and it is in a private home and the room will seat about 35 or so people, so that gives you the idea of it's size. Here is information on the organ with examples of people playing on it (If you go to the UPLOADS SECTION. The Joerg Glebe Organ. He had the organ built and many of the speakers, cameras to record visually the artist playing, and other components are heal within that section. It is being used exactly as a pipe organ, just in a smaller space. Here it has been done beautifully and no expense spared (it is amazing what you can do with money He using interchangeable drawknobs so that when he changes organ sample sets, the organ will match the sample set and allow the organist to easily find and register the organ for the performances.
If you go online and Google Hauptwerk or virtual organ , especially on YouTube, you will see a myriad of versions of these instruments, from the most minimalistic (and sometimes cobbled together to quite elaborate versions. They have used these in churches as their sound is so good and they take up so little space, not to mention their maintenance costs a virtually non-existent compared to pipe organ maintenance.
In an earlier post, I showed my dream console/organs that I may or may not ever get to build, but if you looked up the compass of what has been put together and is being used, you can see that it doesn't take much to create even a 5 manual and pedal (5MP) organ and instead of tradition stops (drawknobs or tabs), tough-screen are used reducing the cost dramatically...a tremendous cost savings. If you are of a mind, search around and watch/listen to these organs and what some people (the owners/builders) say about them. I think it will be enlightening and perhaps better explain what I am doing to one degree or another. This can get you started: Hauptwerk in Many Forms
I hope this gives you a better idea of what I am doing, but as a rule, on a larger scale, depending on the circumstances (converting an organ for someone else or building an organ for me). Best wishes, Steven
This is a better illustration of the number of recordings that have been made on the Joerg Glebe Organ... YouTube
Here are a number if photographs of his organ. Joerg Glebe Organ - Google Drive
Here are a number if photographs of his organ. Joerg Glebe Organ - Google Drive
Thanks for the compliment.What you have raised is no different than playing your clarinet in a small room. Organ or clarinet, you are playing in a small room and that's making music. Again, you can season the sound to tickle your imagination that you are hearing organ sound as you might in a big church*. But you are hearing that in the inescapable acoustic perceptual environment of a small room....
B.
*Art seems to have a good imagination
Although I have "imagined" more virtual acoustical places than I have constructed, let me make it clear that the inescapable acoustic perceptual environment of a small room can be measurably changed with artificial reverberation to mimic the RT60 and reverberation directional signature of any larger sized room.
When the RT60 of a small room becomes that of a 747 aircraft hangar, it's fairly easy to suspend one's disbelief that one is still in a small room, but still requires shutting your eyes to prevent cognitive dissonance.
The opposite is not possible- a large room can not be made to sound "small". Adding artificial reverberation (whether on a sample or mixed in) in a large room can turn the Sistine Chapel into a cistern ;^).
Art
The introduction of geometrically correct perspective in Rennaissance painting did not result in viewers walking into the canvases thinking they were real.*When the RT60 of a small room becomes that of a 747 aircraft hangar, it's fairly easy to suspend one's disbelief that one is still in a small room, but still requires shutting your eyes to prevent cognitive dissonance.
B.
*I could be wrong.
I could be totally off-base here, but we are effectively talking about fooling the senses...correct? That is what false reverb is essentially. Basically everything we listen to that has been recorded has been processed in many ways, including reverb as sound booths are usually completely non-reverberant in a recording studio. Just like curved flat screen TVs, they are designed to be more immersive. From the ones that I have seen, they are much more immersive that a flat screen, but there is a point of diminishing return and that is size. Unless the screen is large enough and you can be close enough to trigger that part of the brain that perceives depth, it won't work. Large screens (50"+) at a fairly close distance (6' or so) give you a marked improvement in "immersiveness". I might not be explaining it well, but hopefully it is understandable.
Wow, what a topic.. watching with big interest.
Sadly some parts of the text is missing (incomplete sentences) but a good start to understand basics.
You could try this for starters.
PassDiy
Sadly some parts of the text is missing (incomplete sentences) but a good start to understand basics.
So many great ideas here I instantly started to think about a TL for the bass part of my 3-way system.. and then I just dropped the idea 'cause I might be sticking with the 18" PA460-8 Daytons and a reasonable sized vented box.
I have some questions which might be a little bit offtopic here. Could you guys please check in
here ?
I have some questions which might be a little bit offtopic here. Could you guys please check in
here ?
Hi Kiaya 611
Check this out: [DIY design] Overboard subwoofer - [English]
Like you, gentleman who built this is an organ aficionado. He told me it works happily down to 8Hz. Very rough looking, but if it works...His mail address is on the site.
Cheers
Barry
Check this out: [DIY design] Overboard subwoofer - [English]
Like you, gentleman who built this is an organ aficionado. He told me it works happily down to 8Hz. Very rough looking, but if it works...His mail address is on the site.
Cheers
Barry
Great thread! Just adding my thoughts that I really like the reverb unit idea. I think alot a folks into the classical genre would fall in with the love the sound even on just stereo speakers. Dead serious, good reverb is VERY real and immersive. Might disagree with Art slightly on the cost/approach and say high end verb unit stereo Bricasti Design or alternately a 5.1 unit (6 channel) PCM96 Surround | Lexicon Pro - Legendary Reverb and Effects. Strangely, I have an older non 5.1 but 6 channel Sony AV receiver that does this sort of thing remarkably well.
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