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Ported and sealed subs in the same room?
Ported and sealed subs in the same room?
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Old 19th January 2018, 07:32 PM   #21
mark100 is offline mark100  United States
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Add me to the multiple sub indoor camp, and I really don't think it matters if you mix them. Or at least for the types I use...sealed, reflex, and FLH.

IMO, anytime you put a sub in a room, you already have multiple subs....virtual subs mirrored off boundaries....with phase issues all over everywhere.

So what the heck, scramble it up some more

FWIW, my experience is it's next to impossible to measure subs indoors, other than maybe a few inches away.

Just gotta try (listen to) all kind of placements, deployments, till you settle in on something I think
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Old 19th January 2018, 11:27 PM   #22
bentoronto is offline bentoronto  Canada
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Ported and sealed subs in the same room?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark100 View Post
...FWIW, my experience is it's next to impossible to measure subs indoors, other than maybe a few inches away.

Just gotta try (listen to) all kind of placements, deployments, till you settle in on something I think
In an otherwise helpful post, I'd like to differ with the ending.

I mostly measure right where I sit and that gives a stable standard for me.

Once after we painted the music room and I had scope to move things around, I tried a small sealed sub box in 14 different locations around the front-end of the room. Major differences and some locations stood out as better and all clear as day using REW.

Only if you have a substantial basis of time of listening comparisons in the same room or same speakers and same recordings (like some I've used for 60 yrs) can you even venture an opinion with any confidence at all*. But with a mic, you are good-to-go in minutes.

B.
*Funny, research by Loftus on "eye witness" reports shows that the folks with the greatest confidence in their own truth are often the most false.
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Last edited by bentoronto; 19th January 2018 at 11:30 PM.
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Old 20th January 2018, 11:22 AM   #23
homebuilder is offline homebuilder  United States
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Default multiple subs

ScottJoplin:

I do not have any type of signal processing equipment such as DSP, etc. From what I read, that stuff is not very expensive, so it would not be a big deal to acquire some.

Like you, I enjoy the sound of dipole and open baffle speakers. My experience listening to open baffle is very limited, just because I don't encounter people who have them. I've heard numerous dipole designs which I enjoy.

One of the most exciting aspects about getting this room done is that I can do anything I like in that room. My wife doesn't plan to go there, and doesn't care what I do with equipment. She is a dream wife. I ran into a pair of brand new Martin Logan CLX Anniversary speakers new in the crate for half price, and the salesman told me that they would not sell due to the dreaded "WAF". I told him my wife was still mad at me for selling our Martin Logans that she liked. When I got home I showed her a picture of them online, and she thought it was cool that you could see through them. I should have bought them for the $12,500 asking price.

My plan is to experiment with numerous designs in this room. Open baffle will certainly be one of them. As stated in my OP, I like Acoustic Elegance woofers, and would certainly buy his dipole or infinite baffle woofers.
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Old 20th January 2018, 01:43 PM   #24
mark100 is offline mark100  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bentoronto View Post
In an otherwise helpful post, I'd like to differ with the ending.

I mostly measure right where I sit and that gives a stable standard for me.

Once after we painted the music room and I had scope to move things around, I tried a small sealed sub box in 14 different locations around the front-end of the room. Major differences and some locations stood out as better and all clear as day using REW.

Only if you have a substantial basis of time of listening comparisons in the same room or same speakers and same recordings (like some I've used for 60 yrs) can you even venture an opinion with any confidence at all*. But with a mic, you are good-to-go in minutes.

B.
*Funny, research by Loftus on "eye witness" reports shows that the folks with the greatest confidence in their own truth are often the most false.
I think Ben is right, I over spoke the difficulty for most purposes.

Mainly because I use dual FFT measurements, trying to locate sub's acoustic centers, compensate for the time delay, and achieve phase info at measurement location. Outdoors and in larger rooms, it is possible to time/phase align subs to mains.....this is my focus, and should not taint tuning in normal rooms.

You can do that with REW too, and maybe REW can do a better job indoors than dual FFT, since it uses swept sine. More things to try
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Old 20th January 2018, 03:26 PM   #25
bentoronto is offline bentoronto  Canada
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Ported and sealed subs in the same room?
I would like to emphasize the need for standardization and varying only one variable at a time. Likewise, sticking with a tool even if imperfect that you are used to using (even just the mic in your laptop).

These tests are messy so important to use good methods.

And most wonderful of all, working with a DSP like the inexpensive Behringer DCX2496 where you just dial in stuff like a new crossover slope and see the incremental change.

B.
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Old 5th February 2018, 10:16 PM   #26
Think is offline Think  Netherlands
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Ported and sealed subs in the same room?
Better not mix any (use the same) speakers which produce the same frequencies. This applies to tops and subs. You get all kind of strange cancelations if you do.

Sound quality wise; 2 (same) subs is always better then 1, 4 is only a bit better then 2 but gives more flexability placing them. Always play subs mono and under your tops is often the worst place to put them.
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Old 5th February 2018, 10:35 PM   #27
scottjoplin is offline scottjoplin  Wales
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Think View Post
Better not mix any (use the same) speakers which produce the same frequencies. This applies to tops and subs. You get all kind of strange cancelations if you do.
It's different with subs because they are operating where room modes are in control, and, strange/random cancellations help alleviate the problems to a degree
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Old 6th February 2018, 08:23 PM   #28
Waboo is offline Waboo  United States
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I have 2 SVS subs in my HT area. One is a PB13 Ultra loaded in a corner which has 3 ports - all unplugged. My other is a smaller SB12, which is sealed. I've had this setup for many years now and it seems to work great for both music and HT.
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Old 6th February 2018, 09:01 PM   #29
bentoronto is offline bentoronto  Canada
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Ported and sealed subs in the same room?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waboo View Post
I have 2 SVS subs in my HT area. One is a PB13 Ultra loaded in a corner which has 3 ports - all unplugged. My other is a smaller SB12, which is sealed. I've had this setup for many years now and it seems to work great for both music and HT.
Yes, a lot of people have trouble understanding the statistical benefits of diversity. Prolly poor with their investments in the stock market too for that reason.

B.
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