Well I have some 10" drivers (Alpine Type R 4 ohms) laying around that NEED a home. I also have an opening for a smaller compact travel subwoofer that provides bass "inside" a house not outside. I already built the Keystone 18 and the Tham 15 which are great. They provide a lot of Bass outside the house haha. I haven't figured out why some smaller direct radiating subs can provide good bass inside without annoying neighbors. Is it just them running more SPL at higher bass frequencies while the larger subs are creating more SPL at lower frequencies? Case in point my little JBL LSR305s or even QSC KW153s can bump pretty loud inside without enraging the neighbors, but once i fire up one of the 18s its all over. I studied some on long wavelengths traveling through wallsin my vibrations classes, but I cant put my finger on exactly how to quantify what makes a good inside subwoofer.
Anyways we just built a BFM 10" Truck tuba with one of the Alpine Type Rs, but it needs the cabin gain of a vehicle to sound right. In an open living room I would pick my sealed 10" SVS SB2000 over it.
Now I have been reading about the Tham 10, TPAMHT and TPAMHTL (improved output from 26 to 90Hz over HT). This will be used in conjunction with my JBL LSR 305s or 308s as a music subwoofer. We listen to everything, but are "those people" listening to a lot of EDM with 30 to 40 hz content. The Tham 10 has great output, but doesn't do well below 45hz. The TPAMHT sounds more like a 20hz home theater sub. This led me to the TPAMHTL. Has anyone built one of these and can report? Having a "punchy" kickdrum is very important to my ears. Also does anyone have a frequency response graph for the TPAMHTL? The TPAM HT has a nasty drop at 90 hz. For that matter has anyone built a Tham 10? I sent Martinsson an IM and did some searching here but didnt find much.
Thanks,
Here is the link to Martinssons Blog on the 10" TPAM HTL.
Martinsson's Blog - seasons greetings !
Anyways we just built a BFM 10" Truck tuba with one of the Alpine Type Rs, but it needs the cabin gain of a vehicle to sound right. In an open living room I would pick my sealed 10" SVS SB2000 over it.
Now I have been reading about the Tham 10, TPAMHT and TPAMHTL (improved output from 26 to 90Hz over HT). This will be used in conjunction with my JBL LSR 305s or 308s as a music subwoofer. We listen to everything, but are "those people" listening to a lot of EDM with 30 to 40 hz content. The Tham 10 has great output, but doesn't do well below 45hz. The TPAMHT sounds more like a 20hz home theater sub. This led me to the TPAMHTL. Has anyone built one of these and can report? Having a "punchy" kickdrum is very important to my ears. Also does anyone have a frequency response graph for the TPAMHTL? The TPAM HT has a nasty drop at 90 hz. For that matter has anyone built a Tham 10? I sent Martinsson an IM and did some searching here but didnt find much.
Thanks,
Here is the link to Martinssons Blog on the 10" TPAM HTL.
Martinsson's Blog - seasons greetings !
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Going by the 10" Type R specs, I think you'd be better off going with a simple damped MLTL design with an Fb around 30 Hz. You won't have the huge dips and peaks just above a TH's passband to deal with (especially one designed using home audio drivers and geared towards LF production). The build would be simpler as well. For an idea of what an MLTL might look like, see The Subwoofer DIY Page v1.1 - Projects : The Boom Unit
It isn't a TH design, it's a Mass-Loaded Transmission-Line - or perhaps, as some people claim, a simple vented alignment with an extra internal panel
. It was modelled as an MLTL in Hornresp though, and the measured results are a pretty good match for the sim.Martinnsons' TH designs are based on particular drivers. You can't just swap a Type R 10" driver in and expect the best results. You *might* get good results, but chances are you will get much better results with a properly-designed alignment for that driver.
I put together a few Excel workbooks to assist in the design process for common alignments. The workbooks are available here - The Subwoofer DIY Page - Horn Folding . If I have some time later, I'll see if I can cook up a design for those Type R 10" drivers that you've got.
Brian, thank you for the assistance. I have two drivers so I would be more than happy to make whatever you can come up with for a design and A/B it. I know my T/S parameters aren't dead on for the Tham designs, but i planned on building one to try and potentially buying the correct driver if I noticed my microphone testing not aligning with his graphs haha. As I said i'm looking for a musical companion to my studio monitors that can hopefully run down to 40 hz and still have some punch. I would like to capitalize on the high xmax and drive this subwoofer pretty hard. I can easily supply each driver with 600 watts rms @ 4 ohms. Lots of spl in small packages still intrigues me (I know Hoffmans Iron law still rules, but moving lots of air with a big xmax is still fun).
Thanks
Thanks
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I should have mentioned its the swr 1043 driver. T/s below.
http://vault.alpine-usa.com/products/documents/OM_SWR_S06212011.pdf
http://vault.alpine-usa.com/products/documents/OM_SWR_S06212011.pdf
That driver is a bit of a challenge. To tune an enclosure low enough to get a flat passband, you need to use a long vent, and the vent has to be a large one, otherwise its output at higher levels is somewhat compromised. Then there's the issue of the group delay at low frequencies when you opt to do this.
To be honest, if I had that driver and I was going to use it for a home audio subwoofer design, I might just opt for a sealed box and use a bit of active EQ at low frequencies - it has enough Xmax to easily accept that.
To be honest, if I had that driver and I was going to use it for a home audio subwoofer design, I might just opt for a sealed box and use a bit of active EQ at low frequencies - it has enough Xmax to easily accept that.
I know due to the high Qts and other T/S parameters this isnt an ideal fit for most tapped horns. I will be using it as a travel sub for music, so i am more interested in getting some good output in a smallish package. If the response is peaky it wouldnt bother me. I have my other subs for flat response. I may be better off to build a good BR ported box for it.
Well I figure I should report on what i actually built. After reading a couple hundred posts on different 10" tapped horns I went with the Cubo 12 Mod. I know my driver wasnt ideal, but Johan (cubo designer) said his Cubo 12 Mod box was very adaptable to different drivers.
Review: I have built the Keystone 18, Tham 15, have some Tuba 60's and QSC KW 181s in the garage. The Cubo 12 Mod narrowed to fit Alpine Type R 10 (4ohms) and driven by a NU 3000DSP Bridged 35 hz 24db, is quite the performer. The driver being 83db sensitivity does not help though. I'm pouring a lot of juice to this box, but the output is unbelievable. I even had the BFM big box guy's jaw drop (Iron law be damned). Corner loaded this Cubo 12 mod rattles my 30 x 30 shop. I honestly cant turn it all the way up without a friendly neighbor visit. It is 11"x 21x21. It runs hard at 40 hz with good punch and impact in the higher hz. It is a tad sloppy sounding without the beautiful definition of a Tham or the Keystone. The 0.5 QTS probably doesnt help. For a small travel sub i can pair with my JBL LSR 308s or 305s for VRBO trips with friends it is amazing. I highly recommend building one if you have one of those old high watt car audio subs and a big amp. The bad is that with same watts i could be rattling houses apart with a Keystone or Tham 15 (wedged in the ol Bayliner). The Tham 15 is compact enough and more musical. If I didnt own the 10inch driver already I would recommend building a Tham 15 for a travel sub as its 19inches wide and can fit in a pickup box under a tonneau cover (lots of headroom too). BUTTT... nothing still compares to the Keystone. The punch, definition, and low frequency extension (just enough), are my favorite. Running that B&C SW115 wide open is amazing what a single box can do. The 4 BFM Tuba 60's are much more efficient, but I just don't like the sound as much. They are more like an instrument playing than the impact of a drum. Indoors they have a tendency to drone. The output from 2 lab 12's is impressive for how little watts they take. The tubas are ginormous though and the profile is not conducive to any thing except a large outdoor event. The Cubo 12 Mod also stomped the BFM Tuba using the other Alpine driver.
After listening to a lot of our EDM and watching the frequency analysis, being able to hit flat to 40hz is an absolute requirement. This rules out a lot of subwoofer designs. There are HT designs that hit 20 hz, but that is trading too much dB's for the extension. I'm hoping to start on Horn Resp and try to mod some Tham 12's to go flat to 40hz. Cubo says going from the 50 hz Cubo 12 to the 40 Hz Cubo 12 Mod he lost 3dB.
Sorry for the long winded less than scientific report, its just in all my reading its nice to hear comparisons from actual builds. I would love to hear this Cubo 12 Mod with a correctly spec'd driver some day... Thanks for the help everyone...
Review: I have built the Keystone 18, Tham 15, have some Tuba 60's and QSC KW 181s in the garage. The Cubo 12 Mod narrowed to fit Alpine Type R 10 (4ohms) and driven by a NU 3000DSP Bridged 35 hz 24db, is quite the performer. The driver being 83db sensitivity does not help though. I'm pouring a lot of juice to this box, but the output is unbelievable. I even had the BFM big box guy's jaw drop (Iron law be damned). Corner loaded this Cubo 12 mod rattles my 30 x 30 shop. I honestly cant turn it all the way up without a friendly neighbor visit. It is 11"x 21x21. It runs hard at 40 hz with good punch and impact in the higher hz. It is a tad sloppy sounding without the beautiful definition of a Tham or the Keystone. The 0.5 QTS probably doesnt help. For a small travel sub i can pair with my JBL LSR 308s or 305s for VRBO trips with friends it is amazing. I highly recommend building one if you have one of those old high watt car audio subs and a big amp. The bad is that with same watts i could be rattling houses apart with a Keystone or Tham 15 (wedged in the ol Bayliner). The Tham 15 is compact enough and more musical. If I didnt own the 10inch driver already I would recommend building a Tham 15 for a travel sub as its 19inches wide and can fit in a pickup box under a tonneau cover (lots of headroom too). BUTTT... nothing still compares to the Keystone. The punch, definition, and low frequency extension (just enough), are my favorite. Running that B&C SW115 wide open is amazing what a single box can do. The 4 BFM Tuba 60's are much more efficient, but I just don't like the sound as much. They are more like an instrument playing than the impact of a drum. Indoors they have a tendency to drone. The output from 2 lab 12's is impressive for how little watts they take. The tubas are ginormous though and the profile is not conducive to any thing except a large outdoor event. The Cubo 12 Mod also stomped the BFM Tuba using the other Alpine driver.
After listening to a lot of our EDM and watching the frequency analysis, being able to hit flat to 40hz is an absolute requirement. This rules out a lot of subwoofer designs. There are HT designs that hit 20 hz, but that is trading too much dB's for the extension. I'm hoping to start on Horn Resp and try to mod some Tham 12's to go flat to 40hz. Cubo says going from the 50 hz Cubo 12 to the 40 Hz Cubo 12 Mod he lost 3dB.
Sorry for the long winded less than scientific report, its just in all my reading its nice to hear comparisons from actual builds. I would love to hear this Cubo 12 Mod with a correctly spec'd driver some day... Thanks for the help everyone...
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Shared album - thane reukauf - Google Photos
Shared album - thane reukauf - Google Photos
Let me know if the photos link doesnt work.
Shared album - thane reukauf - Google Photos
Let me know if the photos link doesnt work.
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