More 18" SUB's? or a more expensive model?

[HarrisonHertz]

Hi,

I have Two Behringer Vp1800s Subwoofers which are pretty powerful. but they don't feel very tight and don't give a good punch? is the speaker the problem. I do have a customisable parametric EQ? if I bought more of these? or some different ones?

 

[Top Shelf]

What tops do you have.

 

[HarrisonHertz]

What tops do you have.

I am usually situated in a rather large hall, and I am aiming for a PUNCH sound instead of the boomyness within the ears? I have heard that a 15" is good for punch

 

[chris661]

"Punch" is about how the subwoofers match up to the main speakers (aka tops).

So, which tops do you have?
How are you running the crossover?

IMO, a system should be flat so the artist/DJ/whatever comes through cleanly. If they want to make it "punchy" or "deep", they can mix that way.

Chris

 

[HarrisonHertz]

I have two 15" tops. They have a set crossover at 100hz. but that can be changed. they sound great on their own with a little bit of punchy bass if they are on full range. but when the subs are in. their isn't any Punch and its more BOOM.

Thanks

 

[chris661]

15" tops could be anything from bottom-dollar stuff made of chipboard with piezo tweeters, or they might be top-end EAW, Nexo, etc.

Tell us exactly what you're using, and we might be able to help.

Chris

 

[HarrisonHertz]

Oh, They are Behringer Vp1520. I know they aint the best. but they seem to be built quite sturdily, and they do produce a nice crisp sound. so im quite happy with them

 

[chris661]

Okay, and what else are you using?
Amplifiers, crossover, etc?
How is it all set up? Have you bridged any amplifiers, or are they running stereo?

The system works as a whole, so we need to know everything about it before we can even guess at what might be wrong.
When it comes to troubleshooting someone else's setup, there's no such thing as too much information.

Chris

 

[HarrisonHertz]

Ok, I have three amps. One 6000w 4 channel Nu4-6000. and two nu3000DSP which have two channels which run in bridge mode as the subwoofers run in mono. They're crossover is set just above 100hz. they can be customised fully. the Nu4-6000 has a set 100Hz crossover, but I run the tops at full range as it seems to produce a better quality sound that way? the tops are stereo, and the subwoofers feed of a XLR split to one of the nu3000DSp's which run the subs.

 

[USRFobiwan]

what are the crossover settings of the sub and tops.

See... what you define as 'punch' is al in the range 100hz <> 250hz . the so called chest pump.

Try this setting for the sub:
set a 24db/LR HighPass at 45hz.
set a 24db/LR LowPass at 140hz on the subs.

Leave the tops full range and/or try a 12db/LR Highpass at 100hz (or anywhere between 80 and 120hz)

 

[turk 182]

it could be acoustic phase between tops and subs is not happy (as in summing correctly)
if the sum is causing an acoustic notch he would be loosing alot in the 100hz region.

the OP said: they sound great on their own with a little bit of punchy bass if they are on full range. but when the subs are in. their isn't any Punch and its more BOOM.

 

[USRFobiwan]

@turk. yep can be a reason. That is why i said he should HP the tops and try.

 

[turk 182]

or he could flip the wiring on a sub and have a listen.
high passing the tops will help but if the drivers are not acoustically summed correctly there may still be enough band overlap (depending on x-over filter slopes) to kill a "kick" feel at distance.
other avenue to explore is input pinning, as in no flipped XLR's or miswired adapters.
troubleshooting blind is hard and we are not there...

 

[globalplayer]

The manual for the inuke nu3000dsp states a df of > 140 which is pretty low. By bridging you will halve that to even 70.
Plus the low end high qts drivers for subs you will have a hard time to get serious punch if any.

YouTube

 

[turk 182]

i was re-reading the thread and it was mentioned that he was running the "subs"(plural) mono. but
if he has one under each stack/top and they are separated by 25 feet (typical stage width) there's also gonna be a problem there as well,no?

 

[globalplayer]

i was re-reading the thread and it was mentioned that he was running the "subs"(plural) mono. but
if he has one under each stack/top and they are separated but 25 feet (typical stage width) there's also gonna be a problem there as well,no?

Long cables will also kill damping factor, yes.
For max. punch the amp should be close to the speaker.

 

[turk 182]

nothing to do with cable length or damping.
two identical speakers playing the same source separated by 20 odd feet are going comb filter and produce sums and nulls in the audience area.

 

[globalplayer]

Of course placement matters (a lot).
But the chain before any sound even is produced is suboptimal for the intended purpose to begin with.

 

[scottjoplin]

The high pass around 45Hz sounds like a good idea, boominess is often in the 40Hz region, the punch of a kick drum is centred around approx 70Hz

 

[USRFobiwan]

@scottjoplin there is no 'fixed frequency' that defines a kickdrum punch. A kickdrum has a broad spectrum that makes it sound like it sounds from 30hz all the way to 5khz (Depending on type of kick drum sound).