JBL Car Audio Vs. Dayton Audio

[grahamgraham]

Hi all! Does anyone have experience with using car audio for home audio?

My long term plan is to get two matching 8" subs to replace my Genelec 7050B sub and a DIY Monacor sub which are mismatched.

I was thinking about this drive from JBL for two reasons: price and reliability of brand.
Sites-JB-EMEA-Site

I have also been looking at the Dayton Classic subwoofer:
SoundImports.eu | Your supplier of DIY audio components in Europe - SoundImports.eu | Dayton Audio, miniDSP and Sure Electronics

The price difference is about £25. Daytons are so much more expensive here and I wonder if it's worth the extra premium to have a product primarily aimed at the US market?

I aim for two sealed subs for punchiness and flatness. If anyone has any input or suggestions for alternatives I'm all ears.

My system is Genelec 1029a (x3 for 3.1) so I want to keep quality high to match those Finnish geniuses! I have a MiniDSP 2x4BAL at my disposal for EQing as well.

TFA!

 

[Brian Steele]

I'm getting a "page not found" error for your JBL link.

If you're talking about the JBL Stage 10 8" driver, the specifications are available here - https://www.jbl.com/on/demandware.s...JBL_Stage_Subwoofer_810_OM (Multilingual).pdf

If you want to find out if the premium price on the Dayton driver is worth it, start by looking at what the t/s parameters say about the two drivers. Which has a greater Xmax, and lower Fs, for example. How does their sim'd response compare?

BTW, the older JBL Infinity 8" car audio drivers seemed to have specs more suited for true subwoofer duty. This "Stage 10" driver has an Fs of 40 Hz and an Xmax of 6mm (significantly less than that of the older JBL 8" car audio driver).

 

[grahamgraham]

Ah, thank you very much. So, I can assume that the Dayton comes out on top due to the parameters you mention. I am yet to learn simulation yet, though.

I found another option that would be cheap to me:
https://data2.manualslib.com/pdf/8/793/79270-jbl/gto_804_8.pdf?1503e1c67aba13dde69cc279fc4d9f8c

A previous model from JBL with an xmax of 11.5 and an Fs of 29.6hz. I can scoop these up at £40 each, quite cheap.

Is there something perhaps I amoverlooking in the comparison between this model and the Dayton?

I'm getting a "page not found" error for your JBL link.

If you're talking about the JBL Stage 10 8" driver, the specifications are available here - https://www.jbl.com/on/demandware.s...JBL_Stage_Subwoofer_810_OM (Multilingual).pdf

If you want to find out if the premium price on the Dayton driver is worth it, start by looking at what the t/s parameters say about the two drivers. Which has a greater Xmax, and lower Fs, for example. How does their sim'd response compare?

BTW, the older JBL Infinity 8" car audio drivers seemed to have specs more suited for true subwoofer duty. This "Stage 10" driver has an Fs of 40 Hz and an Xmax of 6mm (significantly less than that of the older JBL 8" car audio driver).

 

[Brian Steele]

A previous model from JBL with an xmax of 11.5 and an Fs of 29.6hz. I can scoop these up at £40 each, quite cheap.

That's the driver I'm referring to. The specs suggests that it's much more suitable for a home audio subwoofer build. Ignore the suggested box sizes and tuning - that's for car audio use. For home audio use, a larger box and lower tuning will produce better results.

Is there something perhaps I amoverlooking in the comparison between this model and the Dayton?

Compare the t/s parameters.

 

[grahamgraham]

The frequency response graphs look so odd. Are they different octave smoothing to the Dayton graphs?

 

[Brian Steele]

The frequency response graphs look so odd. Are they different octave smoothing to the Dayton graphs?

You can safely ignore the FR graphs. At subwoofer frequencies, the FR is governed primarily by the driver's t/s parameters and the alignment (box size, tuning) that you use it in.

...and of course the effects of the room you use the subwoofer in

 

[grahamgraham]

Ah I see, perfect! Thanks!

Does a sealed enclosure have to go up in size? What would you recommend? How would I work out the sub displacement volume?

I'm presuming the JBL recommended enclosures are for car-situations.

Thanks again.

That's the driver I'm referring to. The specs suggests that it's much more suitable for a home audio subwoofer build. Ignore the suggested box sizes and tuning - that's for car audio use. For home audio use, a larger box and lower tuning will produce better results.




Compare the t/s parameters.

 

[Brian Steele]

Ah I see, perfect! Thanks!

Does a sealed enclosure have to go up in size? What would you recommend? How would I work out the sub displacement volume?

I'm presuming the JBL recommended enclosures are for car-situations.

Thanks again.

An 8" sealed subwoofer for home audio use usually isn't a good idea. F3 is usually too high and it likely won't offer enough output. If I was use the old JBL driver, I'd aim for a vented alignment, Fb around 30 Hz, box size decided by using the t/s parameters for the driver in a sim.

To work out the displacement volume, fill bucket to the brim with water, put driver in waterproof plastic bag, lower it into the bucket until the driver's rim is level with the bucket's rim, remove the driver from the bucket, measure how much water was displaced from the bucket.

 

[GM]

Does a sealed enclosure have to go up in size? What would you recommend? How would I work out the sub displacement volume?

I'm presuming the JBL recommended enclosures are for car-situations.

Correct, though a quick sim indicates there's an inaudible difference between the JBL's 8.5 L Vs a typical 'max flat' alignment's 9.3 L or even a classic's 11.4 L, so if a ~46 Hz tuning with a 30 Hz ~ - 9dB + any room gain to reduce it is acceptable, then you're good to go with any of these.

For HIFI/HT apps though, most folks go vented, which tend to be quite a bit larger to get the most performance out of a driver, but with no max H x W x D limits or knowing your woodworking capability or available power, about all I can say is it will take 200 W and > 31 L to take advantage of all that Xmax.

GM

 

[grahamgraham]

Interesting! Thank you for your input.

I plan on having two of these and maybe a larger one later for the LFE channel (that one might be ported). I have made several other cabinets recently which have all be slot ported. I'll attach an image of my last project.

If I ran two of the sealed type would it make any difference to perceived low end response?

I have no limits on size but smaller the better to keep the GF happy if I got vented. I have made slot ports before, as i say, but maybe a round tube port would be better for size?

I want punchy rather than low and my room seems to give a fair amount of whoomff to the low end that I find difficult to correct even with two large roockwool traps on my rear wall (again, girlfriend isn't happy about these so any further developments need to be considerate, hehehehe)

Correct, though a quick sim indicates there's an inaudible difference between the JBL's 8.5 L Vs a typical 'max flat' alignment's 9.3 L or even a classic's 11.4 L, so if a ~46 Hz tuning with a 30 Hz ~ - 9dB + any room gain to reduce it is acceptable, then you're good to go with any of these.

For HIFI/HT apps though, most folks go vented, which tend to be quite a bit larger to get the most performance out of a driver, but with no max H x W x D limits or knowing your woodworking capability or available power, about all I can say is it will take 200 W and > 31 L to take advantage of all that Xmax.

GM

 

[grahamgraham]

Thanks, I am a bit scared of sims, I need to reinstall HornResp again now I have some experience, I might understand what everything does now. Impedance graphs are the one that mystify me! A simple frequency chart I can read heheh

An 8" sealed subwoofer for home audio use usually isn't a good idea. F3 is usually too high and it likely won't offer enough output. If I was use the old JBL driver, I'd aim for a vented alignment, Fb around 30 Hz, box size decided by using the t/s parameters for the driver in a sim.

To work out the displacement volume, fill bucket to the brim with water, put driver in waterproof plastic bag, lower it into the bucket until the driver's rim is level with the bucket's rim, remove the driver from the bucket, measure how much water was displaced from the bucket.

 

[grahamgraham]

Wow, winisd made it so simple! I still think I'd like to go with sealed. I am looking at maybe a 20litre cabinet which gives these specs.

F3 of 40hz and -5db at 30hz.

I can correct this with EQ if my room isn't doing it for me. It does show -2db in output across the spectrum but does gthis mean I can rectify this by driving them harder?

 

[weltersys]

I can correct this with EQ if my room isn't doing it for me. It does show -2db in output across the spectrum but does gthis mean I can rectify this by driving them harder?

Sure, you can "correct and rectify" until excursion makes for gross distortion (distortion is generally at 10% at Xmax), and the additional power burns voice coils, or makes them hot enough so their impedance rises to the point where putting in 2 or 3 dB more power results in no appreciable rise in SPL (sound pressure level) known as "power compression".

Smaller box = less output, can't cheat Hoffman's Iron Law- Low, Loud, Small, pick any two

Art