Hi there folks,
I am planning on building my own studio monitors based on these ones here:
Guzauski-Swist GS-3a Stereo Monitor System - Vintage King Pro Audio Outfitter
So for the bass, I am planning on using a sealed cabinet with circa 85L volume and a 12" bass driver.
However, I cant decide between 4 contenders:
- ATC SB75-314SC ..specs on page 21 here: http://test.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/ATC-Driver-Specs.pdf
- Scan Speak 32W/8878T01 (https://www.hifisound.de/out/media/...3ak0GONizUM2TysM+nz8J2XXwTo54B6I5BA3B2g==.pdf)
- Audio Technology 12 B 77 25 10 (Flexunits 12 B 77 25 10)
- Volt RV3143 (Volt Loudspeakers | RV3143 (12″))
Since I am using the ATC SM75-150 mid driver, my favoruite contender so far is the ATC 12" but I am not sure.
Further I will be using miniDSP PWR-ICE 250 for each woofer powering them as well as compensating their bass roll-off with their DSP.
I hope to get down to 20Hz flat with this DSP solution.
I only need to find the perfect .. so what's your opinion and your pick between these three?
thanks in advance
I am planning on building my own studio monitors based on these ones here:
Guzauski-Swist GS-3a Stereo Monitor System - Vintage King Pro Audio Outfitter
So for the bass, I am planning on using a sealed cabinet with circa 85L volume and a 12" bass driver.
However, I cant decide between 4 contenders:
- ATC SB75-314SC ..specs on page 21 here: http://test.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/ATC-Driver-Specs.pdf
- Scan Speak 32W/8878T01 (https://www.hifisound.de/out/media/...3ak0GONizUM2TysM+nz8J2XXwTo54B6I5BA3B2g==.pdf)
- Audio Technology 12 B 77 25 10 (Flexunits 12 B 77 25 10)
- Volt RV3143 (Volt Loudspeakers | RV3143 (12″))
Since I am using the ATC SM75-150 mid driver, my favoruite contender so far is the ATC 12" but I am not sure.
Further I will be using miniDSP PWR-ICE 250 for each woofer powering them as well as compensating their bass roll-off with their DSP.
I hope to get down to 20Hz flat with this DSP solution.
I only need to find the perfect .. so what's your opinion and your pick between these three?
thanks in advance
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12 sealed for 20z monitoring
Hello Hugo. The UM12-22 from Dayton may be the best fit. Not many will still take about 8.5 db of boost at 20Hz to be flat but that is less than most drivers. The ATC driver does not appear to have the power handling/excursion to be effective at that frequency. The other two drives have have a quite low qts. I did not model them but I am thinking they are more appropriate for ported boxes.
Greg
Hello Hugo. The UM12-22 from Dayton may be the best fit. Not many will still take about 8.5 db of boost at 20Hz to be flat but that is less than most drivers. The ATC driver does not appear to have the power handling/excursion to be effective at that frequency. The other two drives have have a quite low qts. I did not model them but I am thinking they are more appropriate for ported boxes.
Greg
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also feel free to comment on the DSP solution I am looking at.
miniDSP PWR-ICE 250 (PWR-ICE250 | DSP plate amplifier powered by IcePower technology)
and is that a adequate solution if I am aiming for a hi-end studio monitor?
any higher grade alternatives to these?
miniDSP PWR-ICE 250 (PWR-ICE250 | DSP plate amplifier powered by IcePower technology)
and is that a adequate solution if I am aiming for a hi-end studio monitor?
any higher grade alternatives to these?
I like the username name you've picked. Be cautious about fighting in a basement.
You're not building a sub, if the crossover point will be about 500Hz.
Within reason, these two things cancel out, and you can ignore Qts and raw response.
Why 20 Hz? The system you're imitating rolls off at 28Hz. You can eq your system to go flat to a lower frequency, but you will reduce it's peak SPL to do so.
Personally, I'd give consideration to splitting the <500Hz range.
Many of the issues with low bass are best fixed by good placement and by using multiple LF sources (rather than with megabuck drivers).
If you used (say) an 8" midbass to go down to 70Hz, and then subs below, you wouldn't be forced to put the 12" drivers directly under the ATC mids; you could place the subs wherever they work best. Also, if the "sub" wasn't required to play up to 500Hz, you could use different / better LF configurations, like having opposed drivers.
You're not building a sub, if the crossover point will be about 500Hz.
Within reason, these two things cancel out, and you can ignore Qts and raw response.
Why 20 Hz? The system you're imitating rolls off at 28Hz. You can eq your system to go flat to a lower frequency, but you will reduce it's peak SPL to do so.
Personally, I'd give consideration to splitting the <500Hz range.
Many of the issues with low bass are best fixed by good placement and by using multiple LF sources (rather than with megabuck drivers).
If you used (say) an 8" midbass to go down to 70Hz, and then subs below, you wouldn't be forced to put the 12" drivers directly under the ATC mids; you could place the subs wherever they work best. Also, if the "sub" wasn't required to play up to 500Hz, you could use different / better LF configurations, like having opposed drivers.
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Some people have had problems with hiss / noise with their products. I suspect it is usually due to setup or power supply problems.
Personally, I use a basic mini DSP a lot, including with a (off grid, outdoor, battery powered) horn rig. Much of the listening is done at night, with little background noise. The system sensitivity is very high, so if the unit was noisy, I'd know it.
The only time it is noisy, is when it is plugged into a computer, and then it is strikingly bad (but not with every computer).
Other people have tried putting a miniDSP into their system (doing nothing: all settings flat) and can't tell the difference. That is, when the miniDSP does the analogue --> digital --> analogue conversions but not any eq, they cannot detect that it is part of the signal chain.
Once any faults are undetectable, it doesn't make sense to me to throw more money at getting something "higher grade". Particularly true if you only use the DSP for sub duty, where the driver distortion is always much higher than the rest of the chain.
Okay, you are right. Maybe I posted into the wrong subforum.
It's not exactly a subwoofer but more of the bass-way of a 3-way studio monitor.
Yes, this is for studio purpose!
Okay, maybe 20Hz was a bit pretentious without using a "real" subwoofer with this system I plan.
And yes, correct, the system I am immitating starts rolling of at 28Hz..
I just thought I could get some lower.
But 28Hz is already pretty good for a studio monitor.. I think that would be fine
Building a 4-way system is no option for me but thanks for the sign
Back again to topic.. any other recommendations which of the 4 woofers I could best use for my intention
I intended this mostly as a tip that you're operating the bass driver over a fairly wide range, so some of the usual sub suggestions and configurations that people may come up with will not work for your application.
You probably already know this, but the joy of using something with DSP is you can try it both ways. If your playback levels are conservative, you may find that setting it to be flat to 20Hz works perfectly well.
The Scan Speak or Audio Technology drivers both look good to me - high Xmax and smooth past 500Hz.
Not many people will be able to directly compare the exact drivers you mentioned, but Troels has published info for systems / similar drivers from these makers. He tends to cross the woof-mid lower than you, but the measurements and comments indicate that these bass drivers would happily go higher if needed.
A similar (ish) 3-way with a Scan Speak woofer:
ScanSpeak-3W-Discovery
"Now, this is one linear driver allowing to go as high as diameter (beaming) allows."
A similar (ish) 3-way with an Audio Technology woofer:
PRELUDE
"Modelling point of crossover around 800 Hz? No problem, even with a simple crossover."
An ATC mid:
ATC-SM75-150
Yes, good point.. maybe I can find a good compromise between level and bass extension
Thanks for the hint mate.. I already have the ATC drivers laying here
No I don't. Just bought these ATC drivers as someone offered me them for a reasonable price.
In any case if I decide to go with another woofer, I don't worry to get rid of the ATC woofers
But for now, I really think I will go with the ATC driver.
They are claimed to be one of the best, very linear and very low distortion
In any case if I decide to go with another woofer, I don't worry to get rid of the ATC woofers
But for now, I really think I will go with the ATC driver.
They are claimed to be one of the best, very linear and very low distortion
Seems like you have your answer, then.
With a sealed F3 in the 63 Hz range for the ATC, you are going to need around 18 dB of boost to get to 28 Hz flat. So, if you are running 15 watts at 100 Hz, you will need approximately 900 watts at 28 Hz to achieve a flat response from 28 - 100 Hz.
Looking at it another way, assuming the driver is not displacement-limited, a peak of 300 watts (25 dBW), applying an 18 dB boost at 28 Hz, would imply a 5 watt (7 dBW) input at 100 Hz to be flat. If the driver sensitivity meets the spec of 89 dB, you will be hitting peaks of 96 dB SPL. The actual SPL limits will be material-dependent, obviously.
The keys for a extending a sealed sub are a large VD and lots of power.
With a sealed F3 in the 63 Hz range for the ATC, you are going to need around 18 dB of boost to get to 28 Hz flat. So, if you are running 15 watts at 100 Hz, you will need approximately 900 watts at 28 Hz to achieve a flat response from 28 - 100 Hz.
Looking at it another way, assuming the driver is not displacement-limited, a peak of 300 watts (25 dBW), applying an 18 dB boost at 28 Hz, would imply a 5 watt (7 dBW) input at 100 Hz to be flat. If the driver sensitivity meets the spec of 89 dB, you will be hitting peaks of 96 dB SPL. The actual SPL limits will be material-dependent, obviously.
The keys for a extending a sealed sub are a large VD and lots of power.
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anybody here know any alternative to this:
PWR-ICE250 | DSP plate amplifier powered by IcePower technology
so a plate-amp with integrated DSP but power power? aprox. 1000watts?
PWR-ICE250 | DSP plate amplifier powered by IcePower technology
so a plate-amp with integrated DSP but power power? aprox. 1000watts?
I think you'd need to use rack mounted equipment at that power level. 1000 watt amps are usually fan cooled. Put one in a sealed box: you'd literally be building an oven.
Note that driver spec for the ATC SB75-314SC says it will not handle 1000 watts. The "SC" stands for short coil, usually an indicator that the driver is optimised for midbass use.
...which leads me back to what I said in post 4. It's a shame you can't use these just as (low power) midbass drivers, and add dedicated subs that would get to 20Hz or wherever.
Are you looking at plate amps and a compact system because you're very space limited? Are you converting a small room in a house to a studio? If you'll have a computer and lots of other gear, including a 1,000 watt amp, in a small room, do you have a plan to (silently) suck out all that heat?
Note that driver spec for the ATC SB75-314SC says it will not handle 1000 watts. The "SC" stands for short coil, usually an indicator that the driver is optimised for midbass use.
...which leads me back to what I said in post 4. It's a shame you can't use these just as (low power) midbass drivers, and add dedicated subs that would get to 20Hz or wherever.
Are you looking at plate amps and a compact system because you're very space limited? Are you converting a small room in a house to a studio? If you'll have a computer and lots of other gear, including a 1,000 watt amp, in a small room, do you have a plan to (silently) suck out all that heat?
I find the Fane PRO 15-600LF very punchy low down.
Fane : Fane Sovereign Pro 15-600LF :: PS138.26 IN STOCK (14 Nov 2017)
Fane : Fane Sovereign Pro 15-600LF :: PS138.26 IN STOCK (14 Nov 2017)
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Yes indeed, I am kinda limited. Well right now, not too much, but who knows if I will ever be able to have that 25qm studio like now.
My initial plan was to built a PMC mb2 clone by Wilmslow Audio:
WA TL12
all passive, easy built.
but then I realized: they are huge as crazy! like little fridges.
and I can't really justify buying such huge amps as I don't know what my future spaces will look like.
So I am considering this sealed box/DSP solution..simply to save space
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