The oft-delayed Hypex Fusion line of DSP plate amps is now scheduled for early-2018 release. Seems likely that one of them will provide the requested power.
Power handling may be an issue with the ATC 12, however.
With a sub, you are dealing with the inevitable trade-offs between extension, efficiency and box size (Hoffman's Iron Law).
Small and deep means lots of power, so lots of power handling.
Power handling may be an issue with the ATC 12, however.
With a sub, you are dealing with the inevitable trade-offs between extension, efficiency and box size (Hoffman's Iron Law).
Small and deep means lots of power, so lots of power handling.
In some ways, smaller <> better.
In a small space with lots of gear, you need to stack stuff floor to ceiling as much as possible... so I find simple squarish boxes like little fridges are about as space efficient.
With a GUZAUSKI-SWIST GS-3A (or close copy), you can put a shelf underneath, but not much on top. I have speakers like 'little fridges', so I can stack stuff on the top. Same same.
Also a closed studio can get hot, and if you want silence, you might have to be sparing with air con. A bigger speaker + smaller amps (that don't need fan cooling) might be easier to live with in that respect.
True.
More power from an amplifier means more distortion, as well.
The only relevant issue is whether the distortion in question is a problem within the design envelope.
I will throw something out there, feel free to ignore. I am from the US and most familiar with the Dayton drivers. Specifically the RSS390HF in this case. It is a 15" driver. It has a low Le measurement of .96mh which allows it to play up to the crossover point around 380Hz. This driver in a sealed box with 6db of boost at 25Hz is flat to 28Hz and -3db would be around 24Hz. I really think a 15 is big advantage with your requirements for base extension. I like that it will work with reasonable amounts of eq/boost which gives you more headroom. Bad thing is that it require 110-120 liters. Just one guys opinion! I am sure other drivers exist that are similar or better.
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50 litre sealed box sub - 106dB @30Hz with 500 watts
Hiya Hugo,
I just posted this on another thread, hope this helps you too!
Attached is a very nice 50 litre sealed box solution.
I use a pair of these at home for both music and movies.
With 500 watts one sub will hit 106dB at 30Hz before any wall / corner gain.
It still hits 104dB@ 30Hz with just 250 watts and stays well within Xmax.
A major factor in all my loudspeaker designs is the vital importance of accurate time domain performance.
IMO this is best achieved with the following:
(1) Sealed box loading with low Q. ie 0.5 up to 0.7 is ideal.
(2) Low Mms / High Bl for a 15 inch bass driver around 4.5 to 5.5 is optimal. This ensures a seamless crossover blend between your fast (clean CSD plot) ATC midrange and the bass.
(3) DSP to Eq in room response and match existing speakers (ATC mid in your case).
(4) Heavy ply wood cabinets. Approx 500 times the Mms of driver ie the attached Beyma has a Mms of 121g so the cabinet plus driver weight should ideally be around 60Kg. (24mm ply box with driver weigh around 40Kg). Also serious spikes required to anchor the cabinets to the floor.
I have a 12 inch version of this which is under 21 litres internal volume and it hits 100dB@30Hz with 500 watts and stays well within its Xmax. Its a real giant killer!
Hope this helps and all the best
Derek.
Hiya Hugo,
I just posted this on another thread, hope this helps you too!
Attached is a very nice 50 litre sealed box solution.
I use a pair of these at home for both music and movies.
With 500 watts one sub will hit 106dB at 30Hz before any wall / corner gain.
It still hits 104dB@ 30Hz with just 250 watts and stays well within Xmax.
A major factor in all my loudspeaker designs is the vital importance of accurate time domain performance.
IMO this is best achieved with the following:
(1) Sealed box loading with low Q. ie 0.5 up to 0.7 is ideal.
(2) Low Mms / High Bl for a 15 inch bass driver around 4.5 to 5.5 is optimal. This ensures a seamless crossover blend between your fast (clean CSD plot) ATC midrange and the bass.
(3) DSP to Eq in room response and match existing speakers (ATC mid in your case).
(4) Heavy ply wood cabinets. Approx 500 times the Mms of driver ie the attached Beyma has a Mms of 121g so the cabinet plus driver weight should ideally be around 60Kg. (24mm ply box with driver weigh around 40Kg). Also serious spikes required to anchor the cabinets to the floor.
I have a 12 inch version of this which is under 21 litres internal volume and it hits 100dB@30Hz with 500 watts and stays well within its Xmax. Its a real giant killer!
Hope this helps and all the best
Derek.
thanks for the hint.
yes dayton seems popular in the US.
the speaker I am trying to "clone" uses a dayton audio reference series rss315 woofer too!
Guzauski-Swist GS-3a Stereo Monitor System - Vintage King Pro Audio Outfitter
also shouts to Overkill Audio .. downloaded it and will definitely look into it!
okay, but that's viable, isn't it?
or will it sound weird to boost like 18dB?
meanwhile I have found another suitable Dayton driver which has its F3 at around 45Hz.. how much dB of boost would I need here to go flat to the 30Hz area?
I saw you offering those ATC woofers for sale. Don't do it!
These woofers are in a class of their own; very difficult to match with whatever alternative.
Do what ATC does with their monitors: build a ported system, but don't try to stretch bass with the tuning.
That way you have one mighty speaker with bass quality in sealed enclosure department.
Just my few cents.
When still feeling the need for sub bas, build a separate sub.
I just bought ATC SCM11, and will provide additional sub bass with SS 30W/4558's in 80 liter enclosures.
These woofers are in a class of their own; very difficult to match with whatever alternative.
Do what ATC does with their monitors: build a ported system, but don't try to stretch bass with the tuning.
That way you have one mighty speaker with bass quality in sealed enclosure department.
Just my few cents.
When still feeling the need for sub bas, build a separate sub.
I just bought ATC SCM11, and will provide additional sub bass with SS 30W/4558's in 80 liter enclosures.
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It's like you say: "....in general....".
You can find info on how (and why) ATC apply a ported system for bass reproduction; I think it is the best compromise in their 3-way studio monitors.
I did not hear them myself, but they don't seem to sound like the well known ported system you refer to but more like a sealed system. That's because they don't strive to pull out more bass out of it by porting, but to limit dimensions.
Their entry level series of speakers (SCM7, 11 and 19) are sealed systems because they prefer well controlled bass instead of pulling as much as possible out of those with porting. Kef LS50 is a good example of this.
It remains to be seen if you will reach an overall better quality with a different approach.
You can find info on how (and why) ATC apply a ported system for bass reproduction; I think it is the best compromise in their 3-way studio monitors.
I did not hear them myself, but they don't seem to sound like the well known ported system you refer to but more like a sealed system. That's because they don't strive to pull out more bass out of it by porting, but to limit dimensions.
Their entry level series of speakers (SCM7, 11 and 19) are sealed systems because they prefer well controlled bass instead of pulling as much as possible out of those with porting. Kef LS50 is a good example of this.
It remains to be seen if you will reach an overall better quality with a different approach.
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Yes, I read somewhere here, that ATC tune their ports to the resonanz-frequency of the bass-driver.. that would be 23Hz.
but according to BassCAD, I calculated a BR cabinet with 70L and port of 20cm lenght and 10cm diameter, it gives me F3 @ 40Hz and a port tuned to 35Hz..
But the ATC 12" has a Fs of 23Hz.. so all that is kind of contradictorily and I don't know what cabinet and port to built.. complex calculations
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