The topic planet10 is pointing is a good start, if you have the time for it, but my personal point of view regarding the question is: make the sub to go as low as possible, as loud as possible (for undistorted ''comfort'' listening levels).
That's for the ideal target.
Now, the real life target: i'd personally go for a full 28hz and up. So a F3 anywhere between 20-25hz would be OK, depending of the enclosure type and cut-off slope.
The main reason behind that is: Not only there is some substantial material between 28-35hz, but these are the sweetspot of low frequencies that are both audible and that doesnt sound ''boomy''... Even boosted, they will actually enhance most of the recordings there is. Especially 28-31hz, which you can EQ-boost +8 to 12db without problem (given your subwoofer system can take it, effortlessly).
Anything shy of 35hz and lower will sound THIN. Brickwall any sound system with a 35hz highpass and no matter what, it will sound thin. Might be OK for jazz, but pretty much anything else... No. The first octave is very important, it's what gives the atmosphere, the power feeling, the amplitude feeling. We're not talking loudness here, but more about presence. Weight. Its fills the room. Makes the sound bigger and fuller.
20-25hz is nice for movies. Some electronica stuff (i'm a big fan) will also benefits from a solid 20-25hz, but not as much as 25-30hz or so.
Anything lower than 20hz will require at least 125db in-room to really feel it, which will require massive subwoofer cabinet, etc... Does it worth it? Maybe. Maybe not. Not mandatory if you ask me... HT aficionados won't agree, that's sure.
As well as Fullrangers won't agree with the highpass 35hz thing!
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404: Answer Not Found. Just the usual back and forth
I'm a full-ranger so I'm looking to supplement it a driver that really shouldn't be wasting its time on low low notes. high-passing at 35hz will... change nothing in my current system
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40hz+ is not a sub. Unless you're in cheap PA ;-)
A true dedicated subwoofer will usually cover 20-60hz bandwith (1½ octave or more) or a bit less bandwith if the frequencies are very low (HT).
my main sound system's subwoofers are covering 18hz-120hz +/- 3db, which is a bit unusual but possible.
What about organ music? And other music recorded in a live environment with deep resonances?
Well here is what I found by actually analyzing a lot of tracks.
Spectrum of Musical Genres
And yes, there is actually some organ music in there.
My view is that most of what we hear as bass isn't below 40Hz. If you can play that low with aplomb, you'll be very happy. Getting down to ~32 Hz is nice if you can do it.
Spectrum of Musical Genres
And yes, there is actually some organ music in there.
My view is that most of what we hear as bass isn't below 40Hz. If you can play that low with aplomb, you'll be very happy. Getting down to ~32 Hz is nice if you can do it.
As someone who is hugely into electronic music, my view is that a subwoofer should be flat to 37hz at minimum. So for PA purposes, this is what I target.
My view for home listening is that since you don't need to hit high SPLs and make compromises for efficiency, you should target closer to 30hz.
My view for home listening is that since you don't need to hit high SPLs and make compromises for efficiency, you should target closer to 30hz.
I guess that depends on your media collection. Here's a single I grabbed off youtube just now - I figured it had decent bass and it turns out it does. A lot of my collection looks just like this with at least one note below 30 hz.
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This track fits solidly in the rap category.
I like this track not because it's a great song but specifically because of the 28 hz tone. Probably half my collection is chosen based on solid tones below 30 hz, some as low as 7 hz.
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I think there's a big disconnect here. One group of people analyze tracks for their collection to find there's not much bass and that's not a surprise because the bass was never a factor in selecting their collection. The other group LOVES bass, bought a system that can play low bass and actively collects tracks that contain low bass.
A person from the first group would listen to these two tracks I've analyzed and never even realize there was any real low bass there because they don't care about low bass and don't have a system that can reproduce it. On the other hand, I'm in the second group and if I heard these two songs on a system that couldn't reproduce those low notes it would drive me totally mentally insane. I'm not talking about -10 db playback, I want to hear those low notes just as loud as the rest of the notes in the track, and maybe just for fun I'll boost the low notes by 20 db.
OP doesn't care about low bass, probably wouldn't appreciate it if he could reproduce it, and won't even know it's there because he can't reproduce it. There's no point even trying. I'm in the other corner - my collection is largely built around low bass and if I can't reproduce it I'd probably just throw all my stereo equipment in the garbage because I don't see the point in having no low bass.
If you don't love low bass you probably won't have a collection that contains much (if any) low bass, and it's not worth it to even bother trying.
I understand your objection about tracks in a collection. FWIW, I had little to no EDM, so I got some. How did I choose? All had to be EDM hits from the past 3 years. I looked at what sold best, and picked that. I didn't even listen to most of the tracks.
Kinda shoots your theory out of the water, doesn't it.
Kinda shoots your theory out of the water, doesn't it.
Kinda shoots your theory out of the water, doesn't it.
Not really. I selected a good portion of my collection because I listened to it and it had low bass.
You selected your sample based on a totally different set of standards. There's a lot of EDM with no low bass. That's the stuff I won't have in my collection.
If you take a random sample of ANYTHING you won't come up with much low bass. Movies, EDM, dubstep, doesn't matter. My point is that people that go to the trouble of obtaining a system that can play low bass actively search out media with low bass. They will buy a $20 movie that isn't even any good just because they heard there's great bass in it.
I have no trouble at all understanding why your collection and samples are showing no low bass. I'm not sure why you don't understand why my collection has abundant amounts of low bass. It's the main reason it's in my collection.
I understand it, but I can't easily analyze your collection. And your collection is, in your own description, bass heavy. Your collection is biased toward low bass, my collection is biased toward what sells best.
As for the Rock, Opera, Hip-Hop and Jazz I analyzed, yes, most of it is biased to my taste, but none was picked for its bass content. It's a pretty wide selection of what's generally popular in those genres.
If you love extreme bass EDM or want all the pipes in any possible pipe organ, then you are a special case and should design your system accordingly. Who could argue with that? But on average, for the vast majority of what people own and listen to, my batch analyses are valid and I stand by them.
As for the Rock, Opera, Hip-Hop and Jazz I analyzed, yes, most of it is biased to my taste, but none was picked for its bass content. It's a pretty wide selection of what's generally popular in those genres.
If you love extreme bass EDM or want all the pipes in any possible pipe organ, then you are a special case and should design your system accordingly. Who could argue with that? But on average, for the vast majority of what people own and listen to, my batch analyses are valid and I stand by them.
I don't disagree with any of that except for this ...
For some reason this forum seems particularly insulated against what's going on in the rest of the world. I don't know forum stats but avs seems to have a much younger user bass and the diy speakers section is all about the bass and several times more active than this subforum. They seem to have endless amounts of money too. My personal system and enthusiasm for bass would be considered extremely lightweight on that forum. I assume HTShack is the same way but I don't go there due to their over the top religious forum rules. And let's not forget that every single year we have a new crop of 18 year olds driving cars with stereos costing more than the car itself.
I'm a moderate case at best in the grand scheme.
What was the most powerful sub driver 10 years ago? The Ascendant 18 with 27mm xmax and 800 watts power handling? Today we have a 32 inch sub driver with 34mm xmax and a claimed 5000+ watt power handling. Things are moving very very fast and it's because a huge amount of people are spending ridiculous amounts of money to fuel the progress.
For some people this is just not their cup of tea, and there's nothing wrong with that.
For some reason this forum seems particularly insulated against what's going on in the rest of the world. I don't know forum stats but avs seems to have a much younger user bass and the diy speakers section is all about the bass and several times more active than this subforum. They seem to have endless amounts of money too. My personal system and enthusiasm for bass would be considered extremely lightweight on that forum. I assume HTShack is the same way but I don't go there due to their over the top religious forum rules. And let's not forget that every single year we have a new crop of 18 year olds driving cars with stereos costing more than the car itself.
I'm a moderate case at best in the grand scheme.
What was the most powerful sub driver 10 years ago? The Ascendant 18 with 27mm xmax and 800 watts power handling? Today we have a 32 inch sub driver with 34mm xmax and a claimed 5000+ watt power handling. Things are moving very very fast and it's because a huge amount of people are spending ridiculous amounts of money to fuel the progress.
For some people this is just not their cup of tea, and there's nothing wrong with that.
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