Hello,
I'm currently looking for a 12" speaker to build a subwoofer.
I will use it mainly for HiFi music listening but also for home cinema (and exceptionnally for little parties).
I found the Beyma 12LX60V2 that seems very interesting but i read that bass are not deep enough for home cinema applications.
I also found typical home cinema speaker like Dayton Audio with a very weighty membrane (very high Mms). I think this kind of speaker is not good for Hifi application because not enough dynamic.
Is there a good compromise ? Is the Beyma bandwith deep enough for home cinema application ? Is there others speakers interesting for my application ?
For information, I will use this with 3 ways speakers. The bass way is made with a SEAS CA22RNX.
Thank you for your answer.
Best regards
Florian from New Caledonia
I'm currently looking for a 12" speaker to build a subwoofer.
I will use it mainly for HiFi music listening but also for home cinema (and exceptionnally for little parties).
I found the Beyma 12LX60V2 that seems very interesting but i read that bass are not deep enough for home cinema applications.
I also found typical home cinema speaker like Dayton Audio with a very weighty membrane (very high Mms). I think this kind of speaker is not good for Hifi application because not enough dynamic.
Is there a good compromise ? Is the Beyma bandwith deep enough for home cinema application ? Is there others speakers interesting for my application ?
For information, I will use this with 3 ways speakers. The bass way is made with a SEAS CA22RNX.
Thank you for your answer.
Best regards
Florian from New Caledonia
What to worry about
If by "dynamics" you mean the ability to reproduce fast transients do not worry about isolated parameters like moving mass: if your sub plays high enough to blend with your mains at crossover frequency it's fast enough, no need for lower Mms.Pro drivers generally have lower Mms because they shoot for sensitivity. HT sub drivers have heavier cones because they generally shoot for extension ( in a small box too ). In good enclosure designs both will play with very good transient performance. The idea that high Mms=poor transients is a myth. Subwoofers have no "speed" only bandwidth. Just shoot for the driver with enough displacement to meet your lower frequency limit at your spl levels and enough upper bandwidth to meet your mains smoothly.
And oh, your room WILL mess the transient and frequency response up (MUCH more than a higher Mms)
Eq accordingly.
(I am not a native english speaker )
If by "dynamics" you mean the ability to reproduce fast transients do not worry about isolated parameters like moving mass: if your sub plays high enough to blend with your mains at crossover frequency it's fast enough, no need for lower Mms.Pro drivers generally have lower Mms because they shoot for sensitivity. HT sub drivers have heavier cones because they generally shoot for extension ( in a small box too ). In good enclosure designs both will play with very good transient performance. The idea that high Mms=poor transients is a myth. Subwoofers have no "speed" only bandwidth. Just shoot for the driver with enough displacement to meet your lower frequency limit at your spl levels and enough upper bandwidth to meet your mains smoothly.
And oh, your room WILL mess the transient and frequency response up (MUCH more than a higher Mms)
Eq accordingly.(I am not a native english speaker )
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Hoffman's Iron Law
Questioning the bass quality from a small box ? I agree, the typical driver that is made for deep bass in a small box does NOT SOUND very nice for music, but it is okay for explosions and dinosaur steps. A really great hi-fi system can be used to play Home Theater, but not vice versa. If you want really hi-quality bass that also goes deep, you will need a very, very large enclosures.
That is why, in some homes there are two separate systems. One system for hifi/music and the other for Home Theater Sound. Home Theater should also allow for a greater number of participants, where as, in some cases, hi-fi music only has one "sweet spot".
Hoffman’s Iron Laws of Speaker Building | Speaker Design
Sensitivity and Hoffman’s Iron Law, or “why you can’t have your cake and eat it too” – Audioblog
Questioning the bass quality from a small box ? I agree, the typical driver that is made for deep bass in a small box does NOT SOUND very nice for music, but it is okay for explosions and dinosaur steps. A really great hi-fi system can be used to play Home Theater, but not vice versa. If you want really hi-quality bass that also goes deep, you will need a very, very large enclosures.
That is why, in some homes there are two separate systems. One system for hifi/music and the other for Home Theater Sound. Home Theater should also allow for a greater number of participants, where as, in some cases, hi-fi music only has one "sweet spot".
Hoffman’s Iron Laws of Speaker Building | Speaker Design
Sensitivity and Hoffman’s Iron Law, or “why you can’t have your cake and eat it too” – Audioblog
This is an out right outrageous and false claim. Depending upon the baffle size, bass frequency cancellation will occur at some point.
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I use the dayton
Hi Kenny.
I use the rss315HF dayton. Sealed box, q=0.5. I listen to classical music and this driver has no problem keeping up with my altec A7 main speakers. Around a 4 cubic ft box gets you down to 32 Hz.
I would not recommend this system for dinosaur steps at high levels however.
Hi Kenny.
I use the rss315HF dayton. Sealed box, q=0.5. I listen to classical music and this driver has no problem keeping up with my altec A7 main speakers. Around a 4 cubic ft box gets you down to 32 Hz.
I would not recommend this system for dinosaur steps at high levels however.
Dayton Classics
Hi Kenny, it would be very difficult for me to really recommend anything without knowing more specifics. In my experience, a single 12 inch per side really does not move enough air, in an effortless manner, to replicate good hi-fidelity, unless, of course, one has a relatively small room.
The Dayton Classic 12 inch (if the specs actually work out to the published numbers ?) would be a compromise, and limited in it's power handling and sheer output. A 3.3 cubic foot (NET) enclosure, tuned to 28Hz, would give you 30Hz bass @ 89db/watt. If it were me, I would use 2 units per side, or even better, 2 of the same Classic line 15 inch per side. In my experience, I can NOT recommend any of the Dayton subwoofer specific drivers for hi-fi music. I built a low boy cabinet (which is actually quite large) containing 2 units of the RSS-390HO 15 inch drivers, and they simply do not respond to the subtleties of music. But, with a Crown 500 wpc amplifier they certainly can reproduce low frequency effects of movies.
https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/DC300-8 12_ Classic Woofer 8 Ohm Specification Sheet.pdf
https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/295-325-dayton-audio-dc380-8-specifications-46152.pdf
Hi Kenny, it would be very difficult for me to really recommend anything without knowing more specifics. In my experience, a single 12 inch per side really does not move enough air, in an effortless manner, to replicate good hi-fidelity, unless, of course, one has a relatively small room.
The Dayton Classic 12 inch (if the specs actually work out to the published numbers ?) would be a compromise, and limited in it's power handling and sheer output. A 3.3 cubic foot (NET) enclosure, tuned to 28Hz, would give you 30Hz bass @ 89db/watt. If it were me, I would use 2 units per side, or even better, 2 of the same Classic line 15 inch per side. In my experience, I can NOT recommend any of the Dayton subwoofer specific drivers for hi-fi music. I built a low boy cabinet (which is actually quite large) containing 2 units of the RSS-390HO 15 inch drivers, and they simply do not respond to the subtleties of music. But, with a Crown 500 wpc amplifier they certainly can reproduce low frequency effects of movies.
https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/DC300-8 12_ Classic Woofer 8 Ohm Specification Sheet.pdf
https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/295-325-dayton-audio-dc380-8-specifications-46152.pdf
Attachments
Ok. With the problem of limited space (Wife Acceptance Factor), which speaker would you recommend for hifi use ?
My first thought was that PA subwoofer would give a better result on hifi than dedicated home theater speaker (like the Dayton). I understand that you confirm this.
I found that the Beyma 15P1200Nd/N can go down to 30Hz. I think it is more interesting than the Eminence for a dual application hifi/home theatre. Do you agree ? Is this speaker suitable for sealed enclosure (I don't need sound pressure but sound quality) ?
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