If the baffle size (including shape) is equivalent and the driver total volume displacement is equivalent then you should get equivalent performance. You will need a ton of dsp though.
Play a 20 hz tone. Turn it up until it starts to sound bad and then back off a bit. Read the spl. That's your max spl at 20 hz.
FWIW, I was reaching 25Hz with 1x15" a side on a flat baffle. Needed 27dB of boost at 25Hz with a LR4 crossover at 150Hz.
At moderate volumes, I was dropping over 300w peaks into each 15", and seeing around 30mm p/p travel.
At lower levels, it was some of the best bass I've ever heard. The room was basically taken out of the equation.
I must say, though, in your situation I'd still go with the 6.5" THs. A set of four high-excursion 8"s is gonna be expensive.
Chris
At moderate volumes, I was dropping over 300w peaks into each 15", and seeing around 30mm p/p travel.
At lower levels, it was some of the best bass I've ever heard. The room was basically taken out of the equation.
I must say, though, in your situation I'd still go with the 6.5" THs. A set of four high-excursion 8"s is gonna be expensive.
Chris
To put Tapped horns in perspective, they came about not from looking at the transflex which I had never heard of but investigating the reflection towards the throat in a synergy horn and doodling around in Akabak until there was something worth trying.
The patent was issued in part because while the examiner cited the transflex patent, it offers no gain over a direct radiation and said so in the patent. This was the only prior art cited as being a significant challenge.
The Tapped horn can produce several dB or more of gain over the direct radiation case and the examiner agreed that is a big difference.
The hobbyist can build anything they want to, Patent coverage is to stop companies from selling covered technology while the inventors hopefully recoup their time and money.
Best,
Tom
The patent was issued in part because while the examiner cited the transflex patent, it offers no gain over a direct radiation and said so in the patent. This was the only prior art cited as being a significant challenge.
The Tapped horn can produce several dB or more of gain over the direct radiation case and the examiner agreed that is a big difference.
The hobbyist can build anything they want to, Patent coverage is to stop companies from selling covered technology while the inventors hopefully recoup their time and money.
Best,
Tom
Tom:
Thank you for posting here.
I have a question,
How can I determine if a particular design is truly a tapped horn?
I am confused. I thought the determining factor was the flare, but someone pointed out that was used in another patent. So if I see a design, whether it is called a "tapped horn" or called a "petunia", what can I point to and say "That is a tapped horn!"
The example I use is the "Anarchy tapped horn" If you were given the drawings for this box, and it was called the "Lotus flower horn," what would you point at to say definitively this is a tapped horn?
Thank you for posting here.
I have a question,
How can I determine if a particular design is truly a tapped horn?
I am confused. I thought the determining factor was the flare, but someone pointed out that was used in another patent. So if I see a design, whether it is called a "tapped horn" or called a "petunia", what can I point to and say "That is a tapped horn!"
The example I use is the "Anarchy tapped horn" If you were given the drawings for this box, and it was called the "Lotus flower horn," what would you point at to say definitively this is a tapped horn?
Tapped horn = both sides of the driver excite the horn flare. One side near the throat the other near the mouth.
The fact that it's called a horn implies the flare has a positive taper. Diy'ers have been making straight taper and negative taper tapped designs as well but those are not horns, they are just tapped.
The fact that it's called a horn implies the flare has a positive taper. Diy'ers have been making straight taper and negative taper tapped designs as well but those are not horns, they are just tapped.
I believe the "tapped" part comes from the driver being part-way along the length of the expanding pipe.
I discussed this with ScottMoose a little while ago, and IIRC we decided the Anarchy THs would probably be best described as "double-tapped", since the driver is mounted a couple of feet away from the horn mouth as well as near the throat.
Chris
I discussed this with ScottMoose a little while ago, and IIRC we decided the Anarchy THs would probably be best described as "double-tapped", since the driver is mounted a couple of feet away from the horn mouth as well as near the throat.
Chris
How is that different than what William Glen did? See post 18 in this thread for a picture.
Using a positive flair doesn't necessarily make it a "horn" either. I'll remind you of your thread on the subject of what constitutes a "full-size" horn
Characteristic of full size vs undersized horns vs ported boxes
The impedance of basically all the THs I've seen so far look more like what I'd expect from 6th order BP systems than "true" horns. Which is not surprising - for the main part they are just 1/4 wave resonators, with the "flare" and path length usually chosen to achieve a particular cutoff frequency and passband efficiency.
Does anyone have the Hornresp sim for the Anarchy TH? I got several pages into its thread on the AVS forum and gave up in disgust. Not one mention of the sim for at least a little peer review to be done.
However, from the response graph for the Anarchy TH that shows the sim'd results, it does look like the passband efficiency isn't significantly higher than the rated efficiency of the Anarchy driver, so technically it might not be a TH
.That design is due for an upgrade in any case. Back then, HornResp could not model the effects of filling. Now it can, and increasing S1-S2 and then filling it could deal with the peaks in the response and possibly extend the usable bandwidth.
William Glen's design also used a whole lot of stuffing (which from the patent doc apparently kills quite a bit of its sensitivity in return for a slightly lower cutoff point and an extended passband. I don't think TD's designs use anywhere near that level of stuffing. TD's designs exhibit high sensitivity AND a wide passband - William's design seems to deliver only the latter result.
Using a positive flair doesn't necessarily make it a "horn" either. I'll remind you of your thread on the subject of what constitutes a "full-size" horn
A horn is a pipe that expands towards the terminus. That's it.
Having a smooth frequency response is nothing to do with it IMO - many don't, and it seems like an odd qualifier: what looks smooth to you might be ragged to me.
Chris
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Hi there,
As I don't want to open a new topic, and I was wondering where it would belong, I will ask here, though it may seem slightly off topic now, since the topic has turned toward tapped horns.
So, I have eight 10" bass drivers, no name that I bought cheaply and I would like to experiment a bit. Jugging from the size of the magnet, I'd say they have highish Qts (no real info though).
Two options: A set of Ripoles (4 drivers on each side), or something like Nelson Pass' "Slot Loaded Open Baffle", with the same drivers...
Did anyone have a chance to hear, and possibly compare both?
Thanks and regards,
Vix
As I don't want to open a new topic, and I was wondering where it would belong, I will ask here, though it may seem slightly off topic now, since the topic has turned toward tapped horns.
So, I have eight 10" bass drivers, no name that I bought cheaply and I would like to experiment a bit. Jugging from the size of the magnet, I'd say they have highish Qts (no real info though).
Two options: A set of Ripoles (4 drivers on each side), or something like Nelson Pass' "Slot Loaded Open Baffle", with the same drivers...
Did anyone have a chance to hear, and possibly compare both?
Thanks and regards,
Vix
Vix, depends on how much patience you have and how much you like to tinker. Since the geometry of the slot is similar for both, you might be able to build the slot piece, then put a "baffle" around it. Test it, listen to it, look at it, if it all the criteria are reasonable, make things permanent. If not, cut the baffle into pieces and wrap the slot appropriately to make an 4 driver ripole.
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