Hello Matthew.
Thank you for sharing your ideas.
Interested to load 2 B&C 10CL51 in the compound loading for the kickbin down to 80-90hz.
Is it possible to get the measurement for X and Z for it?
The height of the speaker is 38sm, the PA310 cone is 530sq/sm and 10CL51 is 320sq/sm. So 530 divided 320 = 1.65. 800sq/sm divide 1.65 = 533sq/sm. 533 divide the speaker height 38sm = 14sm.
And Z = 964 divide 1.65= 584 divide 38 = 15.4sm .
Does it look right?
Thank you
Thank you for sharing your ideas.
Interested to load 2 B&C 10CL51 in the compound loading for the kickbin down to 80-90hz.
Is it possible to get the measurement for X and Z for it?
The height of the speaker is 38sm, the PA310 cone is 530sq/sm and 10CL51 is 320sq/sm. So 530 divided 320 = 1.65. 800sq/sm divide 1.65 = 533sq/sm. 533 divide the speaker height 38sm = 14sm.
And Z = 964 divide 1.65= 584 divide 38 = 15.4sm .
Does it look right?
Thank you
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Jason has been reading DIYaudio lately, but hasn't started posting here yet.......
Maybe this discussion will tempt him to start posting .... Hehehe
I been here for a little while .. just a reading type of guy.. got so much to learn..
Grec13,
You are welcome
i am glad you like these ideas and yes , this can be done with 10" drivers but in order to get the tuning within the right range (higher Fb and an F3 that is not far off) you will definitely want to use the split-path symmetrical layout as seen in Post #696 (NOTE: the small duct that connects the rear compression chamber to the quarterwave resonators is optional and doesn't need to be flared, it can be straight....It does create a useful Low-Pass-Filter effect in simulations so i plan to include it in future revisions) ... ..The B&C 10CL51 would certainly work in this cabinet and should be solid down to 80hz or 90hz at least ...... The Eminence Delta 10a is also a good low cost option and has the hot upper mids to provide extra vocal clarity in this cabinet (if going 2-way with a crossover point in the 1.5khz to 2.5khz range)....
Gerald "GKH" was working on a dual 10" Super Planar top to be loaded with Delta 10a drivers .... Not sure if he has been able to get around to building it yet.....
My advice would be to keep the cabinet's outer depth and width dimensions the same as seen in the sketch and just reduce the height by a few inches ... That is the simplest way without having to do a lot of recalculating and the results will be excellent
....
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Matthew Morgan My advice would be to keep the cabinet's outer depth and width dimensions the same as seen in the sketch and just reduce the height by a few inches ... That is the simplest way without having to do a lot of recalculating and the results will be excellent :) ....[/QUOTE said:
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Grec13,
Ok , if i understand correctly you would like to plug this SynTripp Horn design into the Super Planar compound loaded cabinet, right?
The toe-in angle looks to be a little more extreme than what we have used in the past but it should work ... .
Alright , I edited your sketch and added a few notes and answers to your numbered questions .... Assuming minimum height for this cabinet with 10" drivers made of 18mm ply .. .
When it comes to "1" and "2" there is some flexibility so i gave you a range to work with .... . If you are going with the larger duct i would go longer with it , for example a 8cm wide duct could be 7cm long .... Or a 4cm wide duct could be 3cm long ............
While experimenting with the model it is interesting to see that we score a bit of gain in the midbass range if we go with a 4cm wide duct at 7cm long but it only works well if there is more volume added in the front chamber (meaning the dedicated resonant mass of air in front of the drivers) ..... Based upon this gain and where the resonances shift i can see that It starts to behave a little more like a Super Planar 8th instead of a Super Planar 6th as if we have added more expansion to the LF path .... Might make the midbass production sound more prominent in this cabinet , which we can only take so far before it will begin to sound imbalanced ..... These symmetrical Super Planar tops sound midbass rich to begin with .. .
Mr Vansickle and his monster subs! SUPER PLANAR 8TH!
Updates from J R Vansickle of Paragon Concept in North Carolina ..
The supersized Super Planar 8th club subs are nearly finished (there is 4 of them now) ......... He just sent these photos to us last week .... He will be loading the B&C 18DS115 drivers into these soon .. .
Updates from J R Vansickle of Paragon Concept in North Carolina ..
The supersized Super Planar 8th club subs are nearly finished (there is 4 of them now) ......... He just sent these photos to us last week .... He will be loading the B&C 18DS115 drivers into these soon .. .
That is an interesting concept combining syntrip with the a planar design. But normally the outer flair of the synergy have more degrees and wider expansion. The planar compression chamber is straight so can this cause problems with dips in frequency range?
I have seen the J R Vansickle build pics on the facebook page. I really hope he makes some good outside measurements of this design to see what it can do.
I have seen the J R Vansickle build pics on the facebook page. I really hope he makes some good outside measurements of this design to see what it can do.
While experimenting with the model it is interesting to see that we score a bit of gain in the midbass range if we go with a 4cm wide duct at 7cm long but it only works well if there is more volume added in the front chamber (meaning the dedicated resonant mass of air in front of the driver.
Thank you Matthew.
I'm afraid if I shifted SynTripp Horn deeper inside it will mess up all High frequency.
One more question: If there no need that much air volume behind the woofers, I can make the cabinet 510sm deep (size is concern), so the pass will be shorter. Will it just make a frequency go up, or it will mess everything up?
Thank's again.
Thank you Matthew.
I'm afraid if I shifted SynTripp Horn deeper inside it will mess up all High frequency.
One more question: If there no need that much air volume behind the woofers, I can make the cabinet 510sm deep (size is concern), so the pass will be shorter. Will it just make a frequency go up, or it will mess everything up?
Thank's again.
guess if one had enough W-bin then they would do something
just one 18" with 200 watts (Omega 18 only has 4.8mm xmax rating)
https://i.imgur.com/qVKGxnT.jpg
and that w-bin 18 vs a single 15 planar horn half its size (and with a lot more xmax ability)
https://i.imgur.com/NQfwQtc.jpg
just one 18" with 200 watts (Omega 18 only has 4.8mm xmax rating)
https://i.imgur.com/qVKGxnT.jpg
and that w-bin 18 vs a single 15 planar horn half its size (and with a lot more xmax ability)
https://i.imgur.com/NQfwQtc.jpg
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Freddi
That is a great comparison .... Your Super Planar 8th example is of the Paraflex style (modeled in "TH" mode)....
Try modeling that in the non-path-merged Super Planar 8th style that uses "OD" or "CH" mode in Hornresp , it is the style that Mr Vansickle's monster horn subs are based upon
You will find that the cabinet size grows but so does the output
A few more photos from Mr Vansickle .. ... All 4 now ... Ready for paint..
Here (below) you can see one of the Super Planar tops off to the side in the background ..
In this next image he has placed a few objects into the mouths of the center resonators to give you some reference for perspective ..... A 15" driver, a paint can, and an aluminum can which i assume contained whatever he was drinking at the time ..
and here (below) is what we expect to produce with these four cabinets driven to full power in halfspace ....... This is what they are capable of but I don't imagine that these will often be pushed this hard at the danceclub where they will be installed.. ... We will just have plenty of headroom ..
Here (below) you can see one of the Super Planar tops off to the side in the background ..
In this next image he has placed a few objects into the mouths of the center resonators to give you some reference for perspective ..... A 15" driver, a paint can, and an aluminum can which i assume contained whatever he was drinking at the time
..
and here (below) is what we expect to produce with these four cabinets driven to full power in halfspace
....... This is what they are capable of but I don't imagine that these will often be pushed this hard at the danceclub where they will be installed.. ... We will just have plenty of headroom ..
Grec13,
You are already at the bare minimum on your path width at 14.6cm across (for a pair of these particular 10" drivers which don't have exceptionally strong motors by any means) , so if at all possible you want to avoid trimming the cross sectional area of the path along the back there ...
Lets refer again to the sketch from post #788
Ok now , imagine opening up "1" considerably so that the motor on the Syntripp Horn's compression driver can fit right into the passage we are calling "1" with plenty of clearance as we shift the entire Syntripp assembly further into the Super Planar cabinet , and then we can trim off the extra few inches from the front of the Super Planar cabinet which reduces it's overall depth........... This method gets you close to your depth goal without having to reduce the Cross Sectional Area of the path that runs along the back of the cabinet (or at least you wouldn't need to reduce it by much) ..... . This does decrease the path length by a bit which will increase the tuning but this cabinet should still be solid down to 90hz at least ..... The higher tuning is actually preferable if you want to maximize your SPL capability with these 10" drivers
. .NOTE: Since we have a marginal amount of dedicated resonant air mass in the front of the drivers here and an overall reduced internal volume of the cabinet it will probably be best to keep "2" at a minimum while making "1" large ......
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Bp1Fan,
Add +18db for in-vehicle response .... Hahahaha
Not sure how you would fit four of those cabinets in a car though ..
