even tho window shopping (I've not driven for >20yr and don't play bass anymore) I'll have to find that drawing - 2X Delta10A looks pretty kicky.
https://i.imgur.com/ruV07Xy.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ruV07Xy.jpg
if made 20% higher for a 12 (assume they still fit on the baffles -?) then Kappa12a would look like so vs Delta10a
- sime look nearly identical other than a modest reduction in excursion for the 12" woofer. Kappa12a have a 3" copper coil.
https://i.imgur.com/Tgk4NIe.jpg
a little bit lower Q than Kappa12a would be nice
Here's the 2X Kappa12 Super Planar vs HD15 (HD15 looks like it might benefit from a tighter back chamber - say 32L vs 52)
https://i.imgur.com/ClqYVId.jpg
- sime look nearly identical other than a modest reduction in excursion for the 12" woofer. Kappa12a have a 3" copper coil.
https://i.imgur.com/Tgk4NIe.jpg
a little bit lower Q than Kappa12a would be nice
Here's the 2X Kappa12 Super Planar vs HD15 (HD15 looks like it might benefit from a tighter back chamber - say 32L vs 52)
https://i.imgur.com/ClqYVId.jpg
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Important note about recessed driver depth on the Super Planar tops
NOTE:
The recess depth of the woofers on the Super Planar tops tuned up in the (70hz Fb range) needs to be deeper than 15cm .... 15cm is not quite enough depth to completely fill in the midbass hole , we are still left with a dip ..... 25cm depth to the center of the driver frames or about 30cm to the apex of the driver's baffle is more appropriate with a 70hz tuned cabinet ...
This is just an observation i made .... The original Super Planar tops with 30cm depth to the baffle apex had it's midbass hole filled in nicely
but the Super Planar line array tops with their 20-ish cm depth to apex (15cm to mid driver frame) was not enough depth to completely fill in the hole .... Sounded good but there was still a dip in the midbass (located right where there would otherwise be a hole without any depth at all) ...
I suspect that 15cm depth (or 20-ish cm to the baffle apex) is probably more suited for cabinet tunings (Fb) up in the 90hz to 100hz range.
Not quite sure why Hornresp seems to be missing the mark on this (perhaps because in reality this resonator is shaped like 2:1 ratio rectangle instead of a square or tube like Hornresp imagines it being) , but this discrepancy is the trend I noticed with our first two 2x12" designs for tops that were built .................. I admit that it isn't a very large sample, so "take it with a grain of salt" as they say
Freddi's recent Hornresp inputs that he posted reminded me of this issue ..
NOTE:
The recess depth of the woofers on the Super Planar tops tuned up in the (70hz Fb range) needs to be deeper than 15cm .... 15cm is not quite enough depth to completely fill in the midbass hole , we are still left with a dip ..... 25cm depth to the center of the driver frames or about 30cm to the apex of the driver's baffle is more appropriate with a 70hz tuned cabinet ...
This is just an observation i made .... The original Super Planar tops with 30cm depth to the baffle apex had it's midbass hole filled in nicely
but the Super Planar line array tops with their 20-ish cm depth to apex (15cm to mid driver frame) was not enough depth to completely fill in the hole .... Sounded good but there was still a dip in the midbass (located right where there would otherwise be a hole without any depth at all) ... I suspect that 15cm depth (or 20-ish cm to the baffle apex) is probably more suited for cabinet tunings (Fb) up in the 90hz to 100hz range.
Not quite sure why Hornresp seems to be missing the mark on this (perhaps because in reality this resonator is shaped like 2:1 ratio rectangle instead of a square or tube like Hornresp imagines it being) , but this discrepancy is the trend I noticed with our first two 2x12" designs for tops that were built .................. I admit that it isn't a very large sample, so "take it with a grain of salt" as they say
Freddi's recent Hornresp inputs that he posted reminded me of this issue ..
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OT- how does one fill in the holes in a K-cabinet? - its seems the baffle angle and cavity shape plays some role as does vent area and placement. (it appears the backwave does some fill) Of course parameters figure in too. K15's front shelf helped. If that were removed then there was a greater hole. Reducing chamber depth might help.
Which features (if any) of the Super Planar can be carried over to a K-cabinet to create something useful? I think punchy is important. Can some LF gain be established vs the simple rear cavity?
here's the little ~79L airspace 115BK vs 122L HD15 with Kappa15LF (not sure if "II"?) - I have the rear chamber at 32L which looks
stronger than its usual 52L
your hornresp fudge looks closer than some akabak work although this specific cabinet has not been sim-ed in alabak
.
https://i.imgur.com/TLP2OpD.jpg
Which features (if any) of the Super Planar can be carried over to a K-cabinet to create something useful? I think punchy is important. Can some LF gain be established vs the simple rear cavity?
here's the little ~79L airspace 115BK vs 122L HD15 with Kappa15LF (not sure if "II"?) - I have the rear chamber at 32L which looks
stronger than its usual 52L
your hornresp fudge looks closer than some akabak work although this specific cabinet has not been sim-ed in alabak
.
https://i.imgur.com/TLP2OpD.jpg
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Guys,
I did not use any other dual 10 'template' I just started from scratch since I did not see any hr example for a dual top planar. So my hr sim is based on what has been told by Matthew in this topic. So probably i am missing important clues in how to modal this the right way. Yes rear vented OD it is.
This is my latest try.
edit: I just noticed the MMJ variant above.
Grey is my scratchbuild, black is MMJ's:
S4/S5 should equal Ap which in your case is 1000.
The Ap does not need to match the CSA of S4/S5 but it often does work out that way with subs ...
With dual 10" drivers in the tops we are looking at 1350cm sq CSA minimum for the "Ap" ..
With dual 12" drivers in the tops we are looking at around 1930-ish cm sq bare minimum CSA for "Ap" ..
This is due to the width of the baffle which is hosting 2 drivers and also the minimum height based on the driver's frame diameter...
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Yes =)
Freddi ,
Some LF gain can be had using the compound loaded quarterwave arranegements but that will most likely also come with an increase in cabinet size over the K-cabs ...... Using strong drivers should keep it from needing to be exceedingly bulky ....
The trick would be to somehow integrate a K-slot into a wideband version of it
Freddi ,
Some LF gain can be had using the compound loaded quarterwave arranegements but that will most likely also come with an increase in cabinet size over the K-cabs ...... Using strong drivers should keep it from needing to be exceedingly bulky ....
The trick would be to somehow integrate a K-slot into a wideband version of it
Here is an idea
Freddi ,
Ok , if it is expected to be larger then i have a concept that may be up to the task ... It is something like a Paraflex but also similar to the Super Planar 8th ....... I had thought of this a while back but was reluctant to post it because the high-tuned resonator will be difficult to predict in Hornresp ..... It would have to be made large & resonant enough while also being tuned appropriately to fill in the midbass response hole ...
This is just a rough sketch but you get the idea
Freddi ,
Ok , if it is expected to be larger then i have a concept that may be up to the task ... It is something like a Paraflex but also similar to the Super Planar 8th ....... I had thought of this a while back but was reluctant to post it because the high-tuned resonator will be difficult to predict in Hornresp ..... It would have to be made large & resonant enough while also being tuned appropriately to fill in the midbass response hole ...
This is just a rough sketch but you get the idea
is there something reasonably "small" ?
there was the Super QWAP relative of the Karlsonator
Album Archive
there was the Super QWAP relative of the Karlsonator
Album Archive
CooL ! - what kind of parameters might such a thing want and where would its power be centered? What might the slot look like? Enquiring minds want to know
Freddi,
A driver with a strong motor ideally, but perhaps your PA310 used with the High-Q LPF mod would be a good choice as long as we don't try to tune the cabinet too low ...
What sort of extension is called for by most of the music that you listen to Freddi?
Maybe the slot could look like a classic K-slot, or possibly like what we see on the Super QWAP that you posted about if we move the driver further down on the baffle (referring back to my rough sketch) ...
I have been using the "Lossy Le" option in all of my models lately .... It's formula is set up to be intelligent and doesn't drastically alter the performance of drivers with low voicecoil inductance (Le) values in relation to the driver's voicecoil resistance at DC (Re) ... .
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speakers I have loose include JBL M151, JBL 2035H, B&C 15pzb40, B&C 15tbx40, pym1298 (like Kappa 12) and one PA310-8 and one Peavey neo 12. For POC I'd like something small and punchy which could hobble as a 2-Way - if PA310 then would like even more punch (if possible) than MMJ's Karlflex .
M151 was designed for bass guitar and may have more compression than some other 15- it had a metal dome dustcap
2035H is a nice "hi-fi" driver
15pzb40 has nearly double the mass of M151 - still a nice 15
JBL M151 - musical instrument speaker
Fs 45 Hz
Re 4.8Q
Qts 0.25
Qms 4.8
Qes 0.27
Vas 197 1(7 0 f@)
Sd 0.088 m’(l36.4 in’)
Xmax 5 mm (0.20 m)
Le 0.72 mH
P 300 Watts
(Half Space Reference Efficiency 6.5% )
Power Compression
at -10 dB Power (30 w):1.4dB
at -3 dB Power (150 W):3.1dB
At Rated Power (300 w):4.5dB
M151 was designed for bass guitar and may have more compression than some other 15- it had a metal dome dustcap
2035H is a nice "hi-fi" driver
15pzb40 has nearly double the mass of M151 - still a nice 15
JBL M151 - musical instrument speaker
Fs 45 Hz
Re 4.8Q
Qts 0.25
Qms 4.8
Qes 0.27
Vas 197 1(7 0 f@)
Sd 0.088 m’(l36.4 in’)
Xmax 5 mm (0.20 m)
Le 0.72 mH
P 300 Watts
(Half Space Reference Efficiency 6.5% )
Power Compression
at -10 dB Power (30 w):1.4dB
at -3 dB Power (150 W):3.1dB
At Rated Power (300 w):4.5dB
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