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Compound loading 6th order quarterwave "Super Planar" horns and pipes concepts/builds
Compound loading 6th order quarterwave "Super Planar" horns and pipes concepts/builds
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Old 27th June 2017, 02:49 AM   #21
Matthew Morgan J is offline Matthew Morgan J  United States
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Thumbs up That is a great idea =D

Quote:
Originally Posted by gkh View Post
Application would be live sound, mostly in acoustically difficult locations; therefore the narrow V dispersion is exactly what I'm looking for.

Regardig routering, well, I'm not too inexperienced - BUT: I'd love to 3d-print the waveguide!

Regds
Gerald
Mr GKH ,

Very cool, and Yessir, that sort of HF waveguide would be very helpful for a difficult room ....

I love your idea for 3D-printing the HF waveguide!

We had a heck of a time searching the web and ebay trying to find the proper vertically sized pre-made HF waveguides for dual 1" drivers ..... We just couldn't find such a thing at the time, at least not for a reasonable price, so that's why he built his own
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Old 27th June 2017, 04:12 AM   #22
gkh is offline gkh  Austria
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Morgan J View Post


...We had a heck of a time searching the web and ebay trying to find the proper vertically sized pre-made HF waveguides for dual 1" drivers ..... We just couldn't find such a thing at the time, at least not for a reasonable price, so that's why he built his own
Mr. MMJ,
that's the reason why I'm so interested in this WG. I could never design this by myself.
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Old 29th June 2017, 07:36 AM   #23
gkh is offline gkh  Austria
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@MMJ

Just thinking... If reduced in size, the toed-in array top ought to work well equipped with 2# Visaton W200S-8 and a BMS 4538-8, or a B&C DE 10-8, X-over @ 3,6kHz. Of course with "half the waveguide" per enclosure.
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Old 29th June 2017, 11:39 AM   #24
Matthew Morgan J is offline Matthew Morgan J  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gkh View Post
@MMJ

Just thinking... If reduced in size, the toed-in array top ought to work well equipped with 2# Visaton W200S-8 and a BMS 4538-8, or a B&C DE 10-8, X-over @ 3,6kHz. Of course with "half the waveguide" per enclosure.

Mr GKH,

I am getting some more images together for you that you may find helpful if you plan to custom build a set of these Super Planar Line-Array module designs ...... I will post them here tomorrow for you

About the drivers you mentioned:

The Visaton W200S-8 is not a good choice for PA work due to it's low SPL rating and it's low Fs figure ... It is a Hi-Fi driver, not a PA driver, and it would burn up quickly if it were pushed hard enough to produce sufficient SPL in a demanding PA application ......... A better choice that is not too expensive would be something like the Peerless/Tymphany FSL-0818R01-08 driver but ideally something with more Xmax ....... There is also the Faital Pro 8FE200 and the Celestion TF0818 which are both reasonably priced ...... Power handling and Xmax are still limited on those drivers though... There are more capable 8" PA drivers to be found for more money but if you were going to spend THAT much on an 8" driver you might as well step up to 10" drivers or 12" drivers and get a substantial increase in performance......

Unfortunately when it comes to 8" PA drivers I have tried modeling them in these types of cabinets but i didn't really like the results because i found that the 8s just weren't as cost effective (or space effective) as the 12s when you start comparing the cabinet sizes, prices , decibels produced etc ...... Even with twice as many 8" woofers they just could not keep up with the 12s ......

The B&C compression driver that you mentioned looks like it has a nice response curve but the driver may be delicate according to it's specs .... The Faital Pro HF100 is around the same price over here, nice published curve, similar modest power handling ....... Mr V used Dayton DT250P-8 compression drivers and he liked them a lot .... The Selenium D220ti is a revered model that isn't very expensive and should be small enough to fit into the tight space where it will be tucked..... The Eminence PSD2002 is of course excellent but is larger in diameter so may not fit ....
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Old 30th June 2017, 05:55 AM   #25
gkh is offline gkh  Austria
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Hi MMJ,

thank you for this long comment! Well, the Visaton sure is a Hifi driver , you are absolutely right. The Faital is in a reasonable price range...

Selenium and Dayton are rather problematic to get in my country, unfortunately.

Power handling is not so much my concern as perfect sound and directivity; also decent optics are a major concern as I would like to use such a system in venues like (old) churches and such.
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Old 30th June 2017, 01:53 PM   #26
Matthew Morgan J is offline Matthew Morgan J  United States
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Smile Eminence?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gkh View Post
Hi MMJ,

thank you for this long comment! Well, the Visaton sure is a Hifi driver , you are absolutely right. The Faital is in a reasonable price range...

Selenium and Dayton are rather problematic to get in my country, unfortunately.

Power handling is not so much my concern as perfect sound and directivity; also decent optics are a major concern as I would like to use such a system in venues like (old) churches and such.
Ok , i see , it is unfortunate that the Dayton and Selenium products are difficult to acquire there .... GKH, are Eminence drivers readily available for you?
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Old 30th June 2017, 06:01 PM   #27
gkh is offline gkh  Austria
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Morgan J View Post
Ok , i see , it is unfortunate that the Dayton and Selenium products are difficult to acquire there .... GKH, are Eminence drivers readily available for you?
Eminence shouldn't be a problem
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Old 1st July 2017, 01:55 AM   #28
Matthew Morgan J is offline Matthew Morgan J  United States
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Lightbulb Splendid

Quote:
Originally Posted by gkh View Post
Eminence shouldn't be a problem

Ok , that is a great thing


As far as Eminence goes it looks like the Beta-8A might be a good low-cost candidate for a x2 SUPER PLANAR Line-Array module ...

The Delta-10A looks like a great low-cost candidate for a 10" x2 version ... .

And for a truly impressive and respectable level of output and clarity the KAPPALITE 3012HO should produce some extraordinary results in the 12" x2 version (the cabinet shown in the build photos here was a dual 12" cabinet)..


GKH,
Take a look at the published response curves of all three of those drivers , they have a rising upper midrange response, and this is especially the case with the 10" and 12" drivers mentioned , their extra presence in the 1.5khz to 2.5khz range really helps to bring vocals and vocal clarity to the forefront ........ These drivers will also be somewhat "beamy" up in that range which is like "taking lemons and making lemonade" for us because when mounted in the "toed-in" or "crossfiring" sort of baffle it means that we are spreading that vital upper-midrange energy horizontally somewhat thanks to the 20 degree angle built into the baffle but the vertical dispersion will remain narrow just as you prefer it

Also notice that the 10" and 12" mentioned above have a response that drops off like a rock with very sharp nosedive curve above 2.5khz to the 2.8khz-ish range ........ Just imagine how this simplifies your crossover requirements

I wish the Beta-8 had response more similar to the others ....The 8 is alright, but if you are willing to step up to using 10" drivers then it would REALLY pay off because it is a substantial jump in performance for only an extra 2" of cabinet height


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Old 1st July 2017, 03:42 AM   #29
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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Compound loading 6th order quarterwave "Super Planar" horns and pipes concepts/builds
Delta10a grabs just enough air for a little K home speaker - Delta pro8a = almost but not quite. The 10 has good qts, 2.5" coil helps. Eminence builds 10s with 2-2.5 and 3" coils - 56oz magnet with 2" coil has Qt `0.22 - takes an 80oz ferrite magnet with the 3" coil

Delta10a http://i.imgur.com/cAG0sDb.jpg

Last edited by freddi; 1st July 2017 at 03:48 AM.
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Old 1st July 2017, 05:15 AM   #30
gkh is offline gkh  Austria
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Well, the Delta-10A sure is worth a thought! I just wonder how a waveguide like discussed before will integrate...
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