Go Back   Home > Forums > >
Home Forums Rules Articles diyAudio Store Blogs Gallery Wiki Register Donations FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Compound loading 6th order quarterwave "Super Planar" horns and pipes concepts/builds
Compound loading 6th order quarterwave "Super Planar" horns and pipes concepts/builds
Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 25th June 2017, 07:30 AM   #11
Matthew Morgan J is offline Matthew Morgan J  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Matthew Morgan J's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Arizona
Smile Reply to GKH

Quote:
Originally Posted by gkh View Post
Badass bandpass

The B&C range is far out of my financial reach I wonder if there are other suitable drivers?
Yessir , we have found a number of drivers that work, but it all depends on which range you are trying to cover =)

The Badass Bandpass Super planar shown in post #9 is pretty much designed as a PA sub and operates from 40hz up to a almost 200hz (with some drivers) , and would also be good at home for music listening as long as your music doesn't have much content below 40hz.. ..... One of these cabinets loaded with 18 driver can be designed to tune lower but the cabinet size becomes larger ..................................... If you wanted a smaller cabinet that tunes low you would want to have a smaller diameter driver but you would be giving up some efficiency in that case (which is fine in most domestic situations) ...

Some of the other cabinets shown in this thread start at 60hz or 70hz+ and support output well on up into the midrange , those are the ones i call "kickbins" .....

Have you ever ordered from Thomann in Germany GKH? .


Here are a couple of very good value drivers sold by Thomann ..... These are for bass duty The 18 is truly an extraordinary value , and can work in a cabinet similar to what is seen in post #9 with some adjustments to the layout (such as constant CSA in the main path instead of expansion) ................

The 15 is interesting because it can work in a compact SUPER PLANAR and when used in multiples can be very formidable for the money spent while also being highly portable




Click the image to open in full size.


Click the image to open in full size.
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th June 2017, 07:54 AM   #12
Matthew Morgan J is offline Matthew Morgan J  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Matthew Morgan J's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Arizona
Lightbulb SUPER PLANAR kickbin RLH/BLH designed for Sebastian's P-Audio C15LF drivers

I designed this one for Sebastian

Click the image to open in full size.

This next image gives you an idea of what i am doing with Hornresp

Click the image to open in full size.

Interesting how just a little change in driver-offset (20cm to 40cm) can alter the midrange response, take a look at what is going on between 300hz and 500hz (not that the real world response is really going to look like that up in said range) ...

Click the image to open in full size.

Here is the driver .... Measured parameters... Xmax figure calculated using a current industry standard ....
Click the image to open in full size.


BUT he has decided to sell his C-15LF drivers and is planning to get some other set of drivers so we will need to revamp the design depending on what he ends up with, he was considering dual 10s per kickbin cabinet ..
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th June 2017, 08:16 AM   #13
Matthew Morgan J is offline Matthew Morgan J  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Matthew Morgan J's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Arizona
Lightbulb More folding Ideas for the compound loaded SUPER PLANAR designs

Here are some more folding ideas for SUPER PLANAR subwoofers (not wideband kickbins) ..

The ones that have a constant cross-sectional-area in the main path i have been calling SUPER PLANAR QWPs

Click the image to open in full size.

and the ones with expansions of cross-sectional-area (or "flare") in the main path I have been calling SUPER PLANAR HORNS (or SUPER PLANAR RLH/BLH) ... These would be a form of Compound Horn .... Most of these achieve their expansion in steps, like a stepped horn, and bass waves are so very long that they don't at all mind the "steps" , works all the same ...

Click the image to open in full size..
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th June 2017, 08:31 AM   #14
gkh is online now gkh  Austria
diyAudio Member
 
gkh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Vienna Austria
@MMJ
Thanks for the quick reply! Sure I know the Thomann range, but haven't used/heard them yet.

Man, you really are creative!

My interest is twofold:
- subs in the 35 - 120Hz range
- tops like the one with the custom waveguide made by Mr. V

Greets from Vienna
Gerald
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th June 2017, 10:23 PM   #15
Matthew Morgan J is offline Matthew Morgan J  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Matthew Morgan J's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Arizona
Smile Questions about application and such

Quote:
Originally Posted by gkh View Post
@MMJ
Thanks for the quick reply! Sure I know the Thomann range, but haven't used/heard them yet.
They do have at least a few really good values


Quote:
Originally Posted by gkh View Post
Man, you really are creative!
Thank you Sir,

It is a labor of Love!

Most of this information is just what we have developed and accumulated over the last year as Mr V and I have been exploring this idea .....


Quote:
Originally Posted by gkh View Post

My interest is twofold:
- subs in the 35 - 120Hz range
- tops like the one with the custom waveguide made by Mr. V
GKH,
What sort of application did you have in mind? Permanent install scenario like nightclub, bar or theater? Or portable as in a DJ or band?

The HF waveguides that Mr Vansickle handcrafted produce an extremely tight vertical pattern which is great for some situations and can really help in some difficult lively reverberant rooms , it just depends on how much vertical coverage you need... .... Those boxes were intended to be stacked in multiples as a line-array ...... . If you only plan to have one of these Wideband Kickbin boxes on each side then it would be easier to just use a standard compression driver and horn for the high frequencies (if you don't need the projected vertical pattern to be so tight) ..

How are your router skills? If you decide that you want to go with the line-array style HF waveguides then perhaps you could strike a deal with Mr V to ship some to you if you don't want to do the fancy router work, he might be able to send a set of the compression drivers that he used as well ..... Not sure what the shipping from North Carolina to Austria would be though ... You would need to discuss it with him .. .
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th June 2017, 12:32 AM   #16
freddi is offline freddi  United States
diyAudio Member
 
freddi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Compound loading 6th order quarterwave "Super Planar" horns and pipes concepts/builds
that little 140l 15-P-H would be pretty good for my 15pzb40 - too bad I'm old and hands gone numb recently

tuning appears to be ~50 - the B&C 8.5mm xmax will take more juice
Click the image to open in full size.
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th June 2017, 02:32 PM   #17
gkh is online now gkh  Austria
diyAudio Member
 
gkh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Vienna Austria
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Morgan J View Post
What sort of application did you have in mind? Permanent install scenario like nightclub, bar or theater? Or portable as in a DJ or band?

The HF waveguides that Mr Vansickle handcrafted produce an extremely tight vertical pattern which is great for some situations and can really help in some difficult lively reverberant rooms , it just depends on how much vertical coverage you need... .... Those boxes were intended to be stacked in multiples as a line-array ...... . If you only plan to have one of these Wideband Kickbin boxes on each side then it would be easier to just use a standard compression driver and horn for the high frequencies (if you don't need the projected vertical pattern to be so tight) ..

How are your router skills? If you decide that you want to go with the line-array style HF waveguides then perhaps you could strike a deal with Mr V to ship some to you if you don't want to do the fancy router work, he might be able to send a set of the compression drivers that he used as well ..... Not sure what the shipping from North Carolina to Austria would be though ... You would need to discuss it with him .. .
Application would be live sound, mostly in acoustically difficult locations; therefore the narrow V dispersion is exactly what I'm looking for.

Regardig routering, well, I'm not too inexperienced - BUT: I'd love to 3d-print the waveguide!

Regds
Gerald
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th June 2017, 12:03 AM   #18
Zero D is offline Zero D  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
@ Matthew Morgan

Hi, always good to see your posts. Thanx for the time you've taken to make the images etc & upload them

In Post #13 E & B are similar, as are others, except that the drivers are reversed. In which case, i would have thought that due consideration should be taken in to account when wiring them, or via the electronics ! If not, why not ?
__________________
Rice Kellog still going strong Not sent from a SpyPhone with CrapApps etc
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th June 2017, 02:18 AM   #19
Matthew Morgan J is offline Matthew Morgan J  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Matthew Morgan J's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Arizona
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero D View Post
@ Matthew Morgan

Hi, always good to see your posts. Thanx for the time you've taken to make the images etc & upload them
Zero D ,
No problem I enjoy this sort of thing ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero D View Post

In Post #13 E & B are similar, as are others, except that the drivers are reversed. In which case, i would have thought that due consideration should be taken in to account when wiring them, or via the electronics ! If not, why not ?


You are totally correct about the phase .... If the woofer is flipped you will also need to flip the phase .... Low frequencies really don't care which way the woofer is mounted (forward or reverse it is all the same in that range really) but we definitely do have to take the phase into consideration ...

Personally i think it is always good policy to try the phase both ways and take measurements to see which way integrates best with the rest of your system (and to verify that the drivers are phase coherent and supportive of each other at the crossover frequency) ..

NOTE:
In post #13 those rough sketches are just a few different ways that a compound loaded sub could be folded ...... There are other ways as well ........They are just folding ideas, and that is why there is such a lack of detail there, as in the lack of bracing and lack of dimensions etc .....

If someone decided that they wanted to use one of those folds for their cabinet project then the path lengths and cross-sectional-area would need to be calculated and optimized to meet your driver's requirements (and your tuning) , and then a detailed sketch or plans could be created from that .. ...
....
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th June 2017, 02:28 AM   #20
Matthew Morgan J is offline Matthew Morgan J  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Matthew Morgan J's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Arizona
Talking That would be a beastly B&C kickbin

Quote:
Originally Posted by freddi View Post
that little 140l 15-P-H would be pretty good for my 15pzb40 - too bad I'm old and hands gone numb recently

tuning appears to be ~50 - the B&C 8.5mm xmax will take more juice
Freddi ,
That would be a super robust driver for the 60hz Super Planar kickbin horn cabinet!! A potent combination to be sure .... We could do some fine tuning in the sim to see if we can flatten out that bump that we are seeing at 140hz ..

If you would want something like this built perhaps Mr Vansickle could crank one out for you, you guys would have to talk about it and work out a deal ..... He is in North Carolina , are you far from there?
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Compound loading 6th order quarterwave "Super Planar" horns and pipes concepts/buildsHide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Can you use 2x 4th order BP boxes to imitate a 6th order BP ? RobWells Subwoofers 26 9th March 2012 09:33 PM
Compound horns, anyone? brsanko Full Range 30 15th August 2011 03:15 AM
6th order bandpass question tinitus Subwoofers 13 8th March 2009 07:01 PM
6th order bandpass Chris8sirhC Subwoofers 1 13th September 2008 08:09 PM
6th-order Bandpass BAM Subwoofers 1 24th September 2001 06:51 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 05:29 AM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Resources saved on this page: MySQL 14.29%
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2017 diyAudio
Wiki