When you listen to music with a system that includes a subwoofer, do you run your main speakers full-range and cross over the sub to blend with the natural rolloff of your mains, or do you run the mains at a high pass frequency?
I just bought a NAD T742 receiver, and the bass management options suck. It's a non-selectable 100hz frequency, which runs the mains high-pass in surround, but keeps them full range in 2 channel. Obviously this makes bass integration very difficult. Before I return this for an HK receiver with far more flexible bass management, I've entertained the idea of running the sub at a lower frequency to just fill in where the mains leave off, but having the mains run high pass would reduce excursion which should (at least in theory) clean up the midrange.
So... how are you guys doing it?
I just bought a NAD T742 receiver, and the bass management options suck. It's a non-selectable 100hz frequency, which runs the mains high-pass in surround, but keeps them full range in 2 channel. Obviously this makes bass integration very difficult. Before I return this for an HK receiver with far more flexible bass management, I've entertained the idea of running the sub at a lower frequency to just fill in where the mains leave off, but having the mains run high pass would reduce excursion which should (at least in theory) clean up the midrange.
So... how are you guys doing it?
Yes, it should play full range if set to large 100hz is fine as most subs will also have a lowpass built in, so you can still lower it.
I dont think you ahould have any problems, stay with the NAD, its good. and to get better power in the HK you have to spend a lot more, and only the HIGH model HKs have preouts (our NAD has em).
Also be wary because many HKs have coolong FANS on the backs of them, unlike the NAD T742
The HK makes the same power as the NAD, has a full set of pre-outs, and can use the 2 "rear" channels from the 7.1 system to power a pair of aux speakers in a second room if you choose not to run 7.1. Bass management is fully selectable individually for fronts, center & surrounds.
All for the same price. I just hope it sounds as good. I just don't think I could live with the NAD for long. It is so rudamentary that I'd outgrow it too soon.
The Nad is back in the box.
All for the same price. I just hope it sounds as good. I just don't think I could live with the NAD for long. It is so rudamentary that I'd outgrow it too soon.
The Nad is back in the box.
2-way speakers distort unacceptably when fed any sort of bass and need an electronic cross-over. The midrange performance on my Definitive BP8s and NHT1.3as got substantially better once they were relieved of the bass via an 80Hz 2nd order high pass filter.
Dipole and vented speakers need an electronic cross-over when used with high-volume low frequency source material because excursion gets too extreme at low frequencies.
If I was running a 3+ way speaker where the lowest driver was in a sealed enclosure and had nothing to do with the mid-bass/lower midrange I'd try the low-pass only.
Dipole and vented speakers need an electronic cross-over when used with high-volume low frequency source material because excursion gets too extreme at low frequencies.
If I was running a 3+ way speaker where the lowest driver was in a sealed enclosure and had nothing to do with the mid-bass/lower midrange I'd try the low-pass only.
Drew Eckhardt said:
Wow thats a gross generalisation, maybe at extreme SPL - but only then!
I run 2 ways with 2 subs & being a small box they do not reproduce much below 70hz.
I run a valve pre-amp with dual outputs, 1pr running to may main valve monoblocks the other to an external active xover running to a separate power amp then onto my TL subs.
I experimented using the high-pass filter on the xover, well the sound went from really good to complete loss of soundstage & imaging & took on a typical cheap solid state 'glare' - sure the speakers reproduced less bass & the mid was perhaps 'cleaner' but at what cost! It went from being musical & relaxing to I just want to switch it off!
So in effect the high-pass filter added distortion!
I know in an HT receiver it is a different thing (but for most of them I dont rate them as having good sound quality - sorry)
Well, you got the answers you asked for, but no consensus. 
If you run the LR speakers fullrange and cross over the sub as low as possible, you gain the benefit of making the single sub less localizable.
If you cross over at a higher point and use a high pass on the LR speakers, you may very well get better sound by letting the woofer or midwoofer handle less bass, it depends.
But you'll only know for sure when you try both.
If you run the LR speakers fullrange and cross over the sub as low as possible, you gain the benefit of making the single sub less localizable.
If you cross over at a higher point and use a high pass on the LR speakers, you may very well get better sound by letting the woofer or midwoofer handle less bass, it depends.
But you'll only know for sure when you try both.
Drew Eckhardt said:
This was true of my FE206E's in the Azura's
Ap said:
I'm in agreement that it is a generalization but certainly not a gross one.
This could also be dependent on various other factors, program material being one of them.
FWIW, my scan-speak solists sounded good with a natural roll-off. However the FE206E's clearly at times would suffer cone breakup distortion on passages that had a lot of musical information in them before I filtered out the lows.
Regards
Ken L
Thanks rich!
Anyway, last night I decided to keep the Nad, but even when using the digital input, in stereo it will only run the speakers full range. This isn't such a big deal with my current main speakers, but if I want to use something with a much smaller woofer, I'd really rather pull the bass out of them. I can try using the high pass filter in the sub amp, but I've heard numerous times that the active filter in those are cheap and can hurt sound quality.
The amp sounds great, but what an unflexible pos
Anyway, last night I decided to keep the Nad, but even when using the digital input, in stereo it will only run the speakers full range. This isn't such a big deal with my current main speakers, but if I want to use something with a much smaller woofer, I'd really rather pull the bass out of them. I can try using the high pass filter in the sub amp, but I've heard numerous times that the active filter in those are cheap and can hurt sound quality.
The amp sounds great, but what an unflexible pos
Jim85IROC said:
Absolutely. I don't know if you've seen them or not, but PartsExpress sells some nifty line-level filters at various x-over points and roll-offs. I think they are intended for car-audio, but they should work equally well in a home scenario. I don't really know, 'cause I've never used them personally, but in theory, those may just very well be a band-aid should you ever downsize your mains.
Yeah, I have heard the same thing from several people who have tried doing that. Do what I did when I first did my system, go get a Rane AC-22 analog crossover and bi-amp! It's worth a thought. The AC-22's can be found frequently on ebay for around $125. They aren't a bad unit and will get the job done, not to mention they are extremely quiet.Jim85IROC said:
Jim85IROC said:
The amp sounds great, but what an unflexible pos
Yeah, I hear ya on that one. I have used NAD stuff for years (including my C-160 preamp I'm using now), and they have always been "bare-bones" as far as features go. I have to say one thing though, in my experience, the NAD stuff has always had a nice sound.
Rich.
ratman542 said:
Check this out, -I'm quoting MYSELF!
Actually, I was wondering to myself how these line level filters would help you at all since you really wouldn't have any way to insert the filters on the line levels without affecting the low-pass output to the sub...
There has to be a way around this.
Rich.
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