Hi,
I am looking for owners who have successfully integrated one (or two) subwoofers seamlessly with their QUAD ESL 63s.
I am particularly fond of large-scale symphonic works such as Wagner’s The Ring , Beethoven, Mahler, Strauss, etc. but the 63s have limited bass and dynamics with this kind of music. I think that crossing them over to a sub, maybe at 80 Hz or whereabouts, will probably get rid of some of the frustrations, although dynamic headroom limitations at higher frequencies will continue to intrude from time to time.
QUAD made some subs such as the LT88, LT66 and 102 but they do not mention if they are compatible with 63s. I am retired now, with a fixed income and cannot afford to spend money to make experiments. That's why I would like to get in touch with owners who obtained optimal results using a subwoofer.
Several people have suggested SVS, REL, etc. but they are not familiar with QUADs. Hence, their recommendations are moot. Used Gradient W63 are hard to find and expensive, Janis W-1, and ENTEC are probably too old.
Best regards,
Horacio
I am looking for owners who have successfully integrated one (or two) subwoofers seamlessly with their QUAD ESL 63s.
I am particularly fond of large-scale symphonic works such as Wagner’s The Ring , Beethoven, Mahler, Strauss, etc. but the 63s have limited bass and dynamics with this kind of music. I think that crossing them over to a sub, maybe at 80 Hz or whereabouts, will probably get rid of some of the frustrations, although dynamic headroom limitations at higher frequencies will continue to intrude from time to time.
QUAD made some subs such as the LT88, LT66 and 102 but they do not mention if they are compatible with 63s. I am retired now, with a fixed income and cannot afford to spend money to make experiments. That's why I would like to get in touch with owners who obtained optimal results using a subwoofer.
Several people have suggested SVS, REL, etc. but they are not familiar with QUADs. Hence, their recommendations are moot. Used Gradient W63 are hard to find and expensive, Janis W-1, and ENTEC are probably too old.
Best regards,
Horacio
Well how big is your room? How loud do you listen?
Here's a suggestion, Visaton as a kit called ''petit orgue'', at the description read the notice at the last paragraph, the drivers can purchase at Parts Express. It should be built without the x-over and also without the upper freq drivers, built should be easy/cheap even with the help of a cabinet maker. You will need and amp; Crown XLI800 or XLS1002 (Parts Express = very affordable) they go for a very reasonable price.
Positioned close to your Quads on there sides at least 3 feet from the back wall so as your Quads you will also need some digital signal processing, Mini DSP also very reasonable.
That would be a very good (read optimal) match with your Quads and the easiest to integrate in your system/room.
Just some food for thoughts.
Here's a suggestion, Visaton as a kit called ''petit orgue'', at the description read the notice at the last paragraph, the drivers can purchase at Parts Express. It should be built without the x-over and also without the upper freq drivers, built should be easy/cheap even with the help of a cabinet maker. You will need and amp; Crown XLI800 or XLS1002 (Parts Express = very affordable) they go for a very reasonable price.
Positioned close to your Quads on there sides at least 3 feet from the back wall so as your Quads you will also need some digital signal processing, Mini DSP also very reasonable.
That would be a very good (read optimal) match with your Quads and the easiest to integrate in your system/room.
Just some food for thoughts.
Thanks for the info. I have built many kits in the past, mostly from Falcon Acoustics, I did my own cabinets too. I would like a subwoofer with a crossover included in it but no amp, I have a 405-2 just upgraded for the sub. The only digital component that I have in my system is a Meridian 508 DC player, I do not want to add any kind of digital signal processing.
I remember Mme. Roberge, la sorcière du son, on rue Saint-Hubert.
I remember Mme. Roberge, la sorcière du son, on rue Saint-Hubert.
Last edited:
Not sure how my I can help here
The only planar type I owned was apogee stage and some Martin Logan panels but that was in the eighties,I tried all the usual suspects,muse ,Janis,and later apogee and ml came out with their own subs but they had bass but not very musical
But around 10 years ago my writer friend who had a pair of 63 asked me the same question and he and I tried all the names as you mentioned.with ok results
I then found an old audio pro that was busted for $50 in a yard sale
I rebuilt the drivers for 100$ and rebuilt the amp myself .about 2 years ago he called me ,the amp had died ,so I looked on something that was not possible even 10 years ago ,the intertubes,and I found another audio pro sub busted,I brought it and rebuilt the drivers myself but this time I used a stereo amp with an active crossover for 300$
It sounds amazing although it's an ugly looking box ,but that topology works well with the quads,I dont know why and perhaps someone can explain this
I am sure ther are newer companies that make similar subs.
Hope this helps
The only planar type I owned was apogee stage and some Martin Logan panels but that was in the eighties,I tried all the usual suspects,muse ,Janis,and later apogee and ml came out with their own subs but they had bass but not very musical
But around 10 years ago my writer friend who had a pair of 63 asked me the same question and he and I tried all the names as you mentioned.with ok results
I then found an old audio pro that was busted for $50 in a yard sale
I rebuilt the drivers for 100$ and rebuilt the amp myself .about 2 years ago he called me ,the amp had died ,so I looked on something that was not possible even 10 years ago ,the intertubes,and I found another audio pro sub busted,I brought it and rebuilt the drivers myself but this time I used a stereo amp with an active crossover for 300$
It sounds amazing although it's an ugly looking box ,but that topology works well with the quads,I dont know why and perhaps someone can explain this
I am sure ther are newer companies that make similar subs.
Hope this helps
The Quad 63's impedance curve won't work well with passive crossovers.
The curve even varies with level. Think about a good line level crossover instead.
Quad ESL-63 loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com
Last edited:
Ah, one of the oldest questions in the ESL audio world: what cone speakers are not too awful to put with my ESLs? When matching ESL tweeters, that's a big question. But I think with mating subs, far simpler because no issues about dispersion or even distortion (which is hard to assess with subs). So I think there's no special match with a sub (although long group-delay ported boxes sound like the wrong choice).
While a single good sub is what people always used to advocate, today it is clear that you can't tame room modes with just one.
With my Dayton-Wright panels, I used a single Klipschorn bass for about 40 years. Like dipole ESL panels, just sort of fills the air with luscious effortless bass and - at least on a loose conceptual level - seems to be the match you seek. Of course, you'll have to find a clean 10 watt amp to drive it.
But in truth, having sealed boxes (currently using two) and a giant open baffle have been swell too.
Searching (with a mic) for the best location of your sub(s) is very important. And spousal factor permitting, should not be compromised. Good acoustics and systems-performance in the bass, that is a match you do need to consider.
BTW, addressing crossover point is very important. When you take out bass, you'll prolly greatly add to the power capability of the Quads and so the final march to Valhalla with be so much grander. Which leads to needing to have very sharp slopes requiring a DSP and a canny choice of freq. With "serious" music, you can probably cross over as high as 140 Hz (based on my long-term experience and with the sub far, far, distant from the panels) and never have localization ghosts. Even higher if the sub(s) are hidden behind the speakers.
B.
While a single good sub is what people always used to advocate, today it is clear that you can't tame room modes with just one.
With my Dayton-Wright panels, I used a single Klipschorn bass for about 40 years. Like dipole ESL panels, just sort of fills the air with luscious effortless bass and - at least on a loose conceptual level - seems to be the match you seek. Of course, you'll have to find a clean 10 watt amp to drive it.
But in truth, having sealed boxes (currently using two) and a giant open baffle have been swell too.
Searching (with a mic) for the best location of your sub(s) is very important. And spousal factor permitting, should not be compromised. Good acoustics and systems-performance in the bass, that is a match you do need to consider.
BTW, addressing crossover point is very important. When you take out bass, you'll prolly greatly add to the power capability of the Quads and so the final march to Valhalla with be so much grander. Which leads to needing to have very sharp slopes requiring a DSP and a canny choice of freq. With "serious" music, you can probably cross over as high as 140 Hz (based on my long-term experience and with the sub far, far, distant from the panels) and never have localization ghosts. Even higher if the sub(s) are hidden behind the speakers.
B.
Last edited:
355f1 Well since you have an amp on hand I will simply suggest
you buy the speakers and built the cabs and also purchase the MiniDsp and have fun, you could be in for a very pleasant surprise.
B. I remember the Dayton Wright XG-10, I think it used a piezoelectric tweeter. A friend of mine had a pair connected to a Threshold 800A in the late seventies.
Regarding subs, I was thinking of Martin Logan, a company that knows electrostatic sound and has managed to build one of the very best sub-woofers on the market, the Depth 1, which I was told meshes seamlessly with the Quads but it is discontinued and even used go for a lot of money.
Madisound sells subs kits using Morel and Scan-Speak drivers with amplifiers made in The Netherlands, they even sell a flat pack cabinet but they are expensive and, at $700-$800 a piece, it is a gamble.
Horacio
Regarding subs, I was thinking of Martin Logan, a company that knows electrostatic sound and has managed to build one of the very best sub-woofers on the market, the Depth 1, which I was told meshes seamlessly with the Quads but it is discontinued and even used go for a lot of money.
Madisound sells subs kits using Morel and Scan-Speak drivers with amplifiers made in The Netherlands, they even sell a flat pack cabinet but they are expensive and, at $700-$800 a piece, it is a gamble.
Horacio
Last edited:
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.